feldon30 wrote: There's a difference between "everyone knows they exist" and "anyone can get in by asking". The "Testers Only" forum has been in the later state for quite some time. Whilhelmina@Storms wrote: Having the forum visible should actually allow more participation from those who weren't aware of its existence but still played on test. With the exception of openly discussing exploits these functions should in large be improved by having the forums be open.
Well, I'm pretty sure you poor mods already had way more job with this board than the poor "20-30 minutes of your precious time" it took. Thanks for telling us we have absolutely no respect nor understanding for us, sir, and have a very nice day (with 20-30 minutes more of your time).
Whilhelmina@Storms wrote: I agree that the recent changes in hierarchy has resulted in some who have little understanding of how the test server and it's inhabitants work. And as far as I remember access was not handed out to just anyone who asked for it, there are many who told me they asked and didn't get it , long before the new guy decided it was too much trouble.
Whilhelmina@Storms wrote: With the exception of the foreign language servers no other server even has a forum of their own. I am not quite sure I understand how you can be so miffed. The server forum is still here, and by all indications it will stay, so how does simply having it visible consitute "no respect nor understanding?" They are just treating you all like they did everyone else in the game...before they took our server forums away that is. At least you still have yours. As Piestro said, they will move/delete/mod things that aren't appropriate, so I doubt very seriously that things are going to change all that much. Besides, maybe having it visisble will encourage more participation. Given the limited population, there may not be enough people to run different bugs through different routines. Say there is an SK bug...maybe it affects only a certain AA...or maybe it affects only certain abilities... How many different SKs are there on test to try to reproduce it? Maybe someone sees a post here then logs onto to test or test copy and tries to repro it. That can only help right, and that is what you are there for? Back a long time ago there was a forum for players that was only visible after a certain length of time. They ixnayed that forum. At least you all get to keep yours.
As far as I know, this was the only server specific forum that was super secret. I believe anyone can go to the foreign language forums and post there if they can understand the language well enough to do so. When I got access to this forum you had to post your interest on a 3rd party web site to get on the list for approval to access to this forum. I believe that was not a good thing to do because it gave off elitist vibes to the rest of the EQ2 community. I understand the interest in feeling special, which is part of why so many folks like getting an early Beta invite. It is human nature to feel that way, but IMHO it is not really good for the game to have a 'secret society' for testers.
I do agree that the better way of handling this would be for me to have posted and let people know that the change was going to happen. Unfortunately I have severe time constraints, and chose not to do so because that would have delayed making these changes for at least a week or two. For that you have my apologies. I felt, after consulting with a number of parties, that this was the better choice. Currently there are many people playing on test, because of the GU 63 content. This represents an opportunity to recruit and retain people who are currently testing, and allowing them to see the community that exists on tests increases the potential of this opportunity. While we may respectfully disagree on the reasons for this choice, no disrespect to the test community was intended.
Piestro wrote: Quick question.. when you say lots of people playing on test, do you mean test or test_copy? They are two very distinct servers with a different community. Test_copy has a very transient population where people tend not to feel much attachment because the server can be wiped at any time. On test, people tend to play there regularly and the only way to get a toon there is to make it there and level it up manually, no buffers, no gear merchants, etc. I agree that the game would be well served by a bigger population on test (not test_copy) but all the push seems to be for players to go to test_copy.
Mermut wrote: I'm making the assumption that some players have chosen to go to test rather than test_copy. I have not been monitoring the server populations extensively. People who have played on test before, etc. might be more likely to go to test than test_copy.
There was another reason for this flag (and we usually advertised to Test players at that time): picking Testers for early access in beta. This was done up to SF (under Kiara), lapsed for TSO & Velious but Domino made a big push for it on AoD beta and all flagged Testers go a Friend & Family access to beta. This was for a reason that I'll put bluntly: full-time Testers are used to bugs and, when seeing a bug, will document it, try to reproduce it, find workarounds and advertise game-crashing bugs (for exemple: don't ever pay your rent until next patch or you'll crash the server). Players wanting to just have a sight of the next candy will whine and just say "game crashes it sucks". Of course it doesn't mean that all players that don't play on Test do that or that Test players never whine, it was a generic comment. In AoD beta there was a player from Nagafen who did an amazing job at testing reforging and high end mechanics. But I'm pretty sure the reason why there were so few bugs in Beastlord levelling and Freeport quests was because flagged testers made it to beta early, thanks to Domino. Another point is that Testers are usually used to search for the quest updates without just looking at ZAM or Wikia because it's just not in yet. The number of players reaching Beta and just asking "where is X mob for Y quest?" then "can't find X mob for Y quest, can I have the loc", and then "can't find mob Z for Y quest" is incredibly high, leading some of us to just create macros and spam them all the time to cut down the questions. It's mind numbing.
Whilhelmina@Storms wrote: I have yet to do a Beta with the EQ2 team, however Community usually can make reccomendations for inclusion. I'll keep both the Beta community and those who frequently post bugs in mind (although of course I can't make any promises).
I am playing on Test Copy now for this run, but my main focus has been on Test, where I have had characters since I started playing EQ2 in 2008. It is much harder to gain any ground on Test than it is to play a copied character on Test Copy, but to me at least, Test is a real, permanent server, and Test Copy is a disposable sandbox that can be wiped as needed. I am reconsidering my play on Test these days because I am becoming more and more convinced that SOE management does not know and does not care about the resource they have in the permanent community on Test. If you want coherent and useful bug reports and feedback, you have a far better chance of getting what you want from an experienced and knowledgable group who are committed to helping make a better game, and you get that on Test. And if you want grizzled veterans to tackle the chaos of a first-round beta, that's where you look for your shock troops. SOE used to understand this. I remember the outrage when the EverQuest Test server was wiped in 2000. SOE got the message, and vowed never to wipe Test again. This is where the whole concept of Test Copy came from. But things have changed, and I'm not so sure the current management even remembers any more why there's a permanent Test server.
If what's being done on the Test server is in fact for the benefit of all players, then there's no reason those players shouldn't be able to read about the good work being done for them; all the better for them to appreciate the process of testing, bug reporting, retesting, etc. Why would anyone want to hide something for which all of us should be appreciative?
Pearl wrote: I wouldn't say anyone wants to hide. And we could gain us a few more part-time Test players for the extra exposure. It can provide a place genuinely interested people can ask questions too. But the truth is the vast majority of players do NOT understand the test servers, the differences between them, and what happens on those servers. Just reading some of the posts made by non-Test players in this forum since it went public proves this, there's a lot of misinformation out there, or "close but not quite the reality" information. This leads to: people say we're whining, without knowing how the server struggles people say we're spoilt, or make other false statements which don't help plus the people who will come in and troll because they're bored all in the face of a battered community which is often pretty worn down already. Frankly if someone is not a tester, they shouldn't be spouting off opinions about the Test servers and player-testers, and how SOE does or doesn't support them. That would be like me saying what should happen to PVPers on a PVP server - when I have no genuine interest in that activity, I've never been on the server, and I never will. On a more productive note, since what we need is an education drive, I think a couple of stickied information threads at the top of the forum could really help. "What this forum is for" - explain it's for testers to talk about the testing process and the servers, not for feedback, with a strong warning about bug/feedback/commenting on content posts being moved out. "What is Test server?" - explain in detail, the patches, short notice downtimes, increased risk of the game breaking, the minor benefits (xp bonus, bookworm, master drops). Maybe also what it's really like to play there, the population, broker usage, crafting for others. "What is TestCopy server?" - explain in detail, buffers and usual locations, getting wiped, the copy commands. And other suggestions, folks?
Piestro wrote: Some folks might mistakenly roll a character on Test, but when they find out they have to level it up the hard way they will leave for Test-Copy instead. A few folks will stay because they didn't know such a community existed, but I think most will not.
Wow, I'm not a tester, I don't think you realize how much they do. Really. 20 to 30 mins a week? Do you have any idea how much time volunteers (testers, guides etc) spend on behalf of the community? It's a heck of a lot more than that. I've never been a tester, but I know how much time people who contribute put in. It really must be becoming a skeleton crew there.
has anyone noticed that the plain nek pine trees that u can craft is not visable when placing them in the test as well as the live servers as well since the update this week? sigh.............
