Peacock quest line; many quests in it are timed. No way they would have been possible at 50 which is the level they're tagged. I'm doing them at 60; one of them need to kill 5 skels in 3 minutes. Took me three tries to get it done in the 5. Dbl down greens. lol. The trick was to get 5 pulled at once then let my armor proc kill them as they beat on me (too many interrupts to kill them with my DPS and killing one or two at a time go oop in the time allowed).
Did you really intend to say this? Essentially, this says "we're not equally desirable to others in groups." So we're not as desirable in groups, and we're not as strong soloers either. And this is balanced... how?
So it's a specific content issue and not a class issue. If 95% of solo quests are fine, why change or alter an entire class for one quest? Instead, alter the quest. At least, that makes more sense to me. Does it make less sense to you?
I think I'm MORE desirable than virtually any priest in more groups for more situations. That's not equal desirability. Could you please explain how you would personally create equal desirability for 24 classes in a 6 person group?
There seems to be the argument that the developers did not say the game is well balanced so you cannot expect it to be? That's not a very constructive attitude; the developers are not gods after all. If you are not happy then constructive criticism may change things, it may be all too late if we find people jumping ship for a new start in the months to come. I don't believe soloing Templars want to gold medal, it'd just be nice to finish the race without being lapped a couple of times :smileywink:
Which (to try to bring the topic back round to front again) is why I feel Acheivements fit the bill. "Balance" is a subjective term. What's balanced to you may not be to me or vice versa. However, the Acheivements system allows each of us to somewhat tailor our own specific ideas into the fabric of our class. If I expected to be a better caster, I can walk down that path. If instead my ideas of a balanced Templar included more directly melee damage, I'm able to take on that role as well. The classes are balanced, more or less, according to developer design - at least that's the presumption of status quo. If you feel the class needs a little more of this or that, you can add a little more of this or that. It's essentially a form of self-medication, allowing the patient to decide how best to address the issue, since in many cases, the patient's aren't trusting the opinion of the doctor.
Which is in turn why I mentioned staying away from solo ability discussions until Achievements have been finalised and have gone live. Unless these discussions deal specifically with the changes these achievements are bringing. Even then this is more the territory of the beta testers. :smileyhappy:
Well I (and others) disagree. In small groups, I would only take a Templar last if I had the choice. And in large groups, no difference. This is from the perspective of a main DPS class with a tank alt (in addition to my Templar). Two things here: 1. Archetype balancing is required, not all 24 classes. Much easier with 6. 2. Not all groups are 6-person. And those small groups are quite numerous. It still gets back though to Templars being less desirable in many situations by large margins, and not at all more desirable (or only very marginally so) in the rest.
I'd have to refer you to my previous post within this discussion, as I do feel this again illustrates the subjective nature of "balance".
Ok, so I was right. You were recalling quotes I'd posted which referenced Moorgard posts from all over, including: Note that I was talking only about the *primary role* of the class. Each will have a variety and flavor all its own, which will help you decide which class and sub-class you will eventually want to play. The idea is this: you don't have to worry about picking a class you like only to discover 50 levels later that your choice makes you unwanted. If you're a fighter, you can tank for a group; if you're a priest, you can heal for a group; and so on. This is the beauty of an archetype system. Class choice should make the game fun, not cut you off from participating. Our goal is inclusion and desirability, regardless of what path in the tree you might take. Will there be variety? Of course. Different abilities, spells, combat styles... the whole works. Some classes will be able to do some tasks better than others, but the *primary* purpose of the class will always be there. -Moorgard, August 15, 2003 [/QUOTE] Now, on the surface, this seems to support your assertion - that SOE dropped the ball somehow. Somehow the class isn't "fun" for you in a soloing respect, and so it's easy to quote part of the above quoted passage to say, "see, they said it would be 'fun'". Of course, they also said: I've already posted responses that people don't like, and there will be other issues that arise where opinions will be divided in the community. Ultimately we're committed to making our own kind of game, not one that caters to every player's whims. Hopefully our notion of what's fun is close enough to that of a large number of players, in which case our game will be successful. Again, I think it will be, but I can't prove it to you until you can actually play the game and see our world. -Moorgard, August 27, 2003 [/QUOTE] So, again, it comes down to subjective opinion. Your idea of "fun" soloing may not be my idea of "fun" soloing, and even then, the balance was based around groups - even at that early stage of development. At the end of the day, if you don't like a class, why play it? Honestly, why play a class you don't enjoy? If your playstyle demands a fast soloing game, why would you choose one of the slowest soloing classes as your primary focus? Templars have never, at any point during the game, been a faster soloing class. We've always been one of the slowest classes for soloing. This is not likely to change. Ever. There will be Acheivements that will allow us to solo faster than we do, but it's still not going to allow us to overtake Furies who are concentrating on soloing also. Furies have always been a solo friendly class - always. Since November 9, 2004 and even before, Furies have soloed faster than Templars. This has not changed. This has always been the way of it. If you truly just want to be able to solo faster, then yes, Achievements will allow you that option. If you want to solo faster than Furies, then you're in for more disappointment.
OOC. Your whole post was a mixture of statements that are undeniably factually true but which we already know, and statements that are palpably false and designed to insult. Yes, it was purposefully inciteful, yet, you claim I and everyone else is out to get you. Let me spell it out to you, becase you still do not understand. - It is not because of your views, you are entitled to those. - It is not because of your attitude of continually stating that our playstyle is not important, though that is inciting and causes some problems. - No, the main problem is YOUR FLOODING. Take this thread for example. A thread posted by Robert to provide SOE with his feedback. It at no point mentioned or implied mention of you in any way. However, you took it upon yourself to answer for SOE anyway, as you always do. We don't want your answer, we really don't mind what you do in your gaming, just stop forcing it all on us. There are 64 posts on this thread as I write this, and you have made 20 of them. Why? Why start an argument with everyone else making their feedback? Why take it upon yourself to answer every post for SOE? We are talking to SOE, not you. If someone asks the community a question, sure, go for it, we all can. But if I, or Timaarit, or Eriol, or Thomasza, or KingofFools, or Robert2005, or ... I could name a hundred you know ... make feedback about how unhappy we are with our class, and how weak we find our class, and how we want that FIXED, you do not need to answer each and every post telling us we are all whining. We are not "whining". We are making valid feedback. You may think us wrong, or even stupid, but for heaven's sake, let us make it without constant backchat on every post from you.
With due respect, I believe there were more than 64 posts within this forum at one point and that some have simply been removed. I know for a fact that happens quite a bit, and when it does, (though some of my posts invariably get removed as well), I tend to have a higher percentage of posts than would have first been seen. Even then, I was under the impression that the discussion was on Templar Acheivements. To my knowledge, I'm one of the few beta testers willing to currently speak up on Acheivements, and so yes, you're likely to see a few more posts of mine in discussions designed around Achievements. After all, you don't know what Achievements look like other than what you're told and what you can see from screenshots such as mine or Reznor's. If you don't like that I'm vocal, that's a personal issue between you and I. It's not in any way against forum rules unless I'm somehow making it so that you cannot speak out within the forum. I'm in no way threatening you or telling you not to post. By way of contrast, you've consistently told me to stop and even requested others to speak up to SOE on the subject of silencing me. This isn't baseless paranoia here about you "out to get me" - I can quote you on it! Now, I would ask, once again, that you put aside your personal problems with me personally; that you take your own advice about ceasing personal attacks; that you stick to the topic at hand. Comments made about "one poster on these forums" or consistent requests to have me removed or otherwise silenced are not furthering your points, and only weaken the good arguments you do make. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Just because I post a lot doesn't mean I don't have something important to say. Just because you feel I'm undermining your agenda, doesn't mean I actually am. Now...what would you like to know or discuss on the topic of Achievements?
Well said again!! But so far i have never seen a mod or developer backup those who think different as Kendricke (i wont count the nasty tells i get each day from a certain group but i get sick and tired of that group) Each thread people are showing their view and each thread gets flooded by the guy and NEVER a mod steps in for us? Why bother Caethre? .....maybe i am just pissed off but it seems that that a) your view (and that of many others) is simply ignored, b) the mods really dont care and just follow exact rules people have to follow and therefor delete/close threads who are derailed and inciting for those who oppose his views. And this will go on forever until people simply say its enough and bye game (enough examples avialable) , people explode and get banned (enough examples again) or just never return to the forum since they are having enough of the Kendricke-clan (enough examples avialabe) Now i do know that people have left the forums too because of the war that goes on on the templar forums (and yes we are all guilthy about that part) but everytime i enter these forums the threads made by those who think different as a certain person those threads are filled with inciting posts against those who think different, people react, mods need to step in, thread gets locked (guy happy since he got what he wants) /posts deleted (again guy happy because he got what he wants) /angry mod (nobody happy since we dont want to make a mod from a forum angry) who has more then enough about all the crap in the templar forums and reacts to us all. In the end we loose and he wins (just as he wants). So how to change this problem. We already know what doesnt work. We react and stuff explodes. Maybe we should just ignore the problem on this templar forum and do what we want to do, provide SoE with our feedback without letting a certain camp derail our threads. Afterall most trolls leave if they are simply ignored. Maybe we should just try that. Maybe thats enough for now. ANd just simply report the posts we think are inciting to the community. If all do that at a certain stange a moderator will step in to remove the templar forum problem.
pwn3d. Not everything is targeted toward certain people on the boards. I can make my claims and statements all day, never mentioning ONE person, and then someone decides it offends them, and says that "Reznor flamed me". Good thread Ken. To everyone still currently interested in this, keep posting your comments and views, it's good to get this stuff out in the open so we have a chance to talk about it.
Show the same respect you want from other posters yourself and things might go better on these forums until then....who knows...moderator who needs to live on this forum which nobody wants.
