Remove ammo or endless quiver

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-Roxus, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-Kitsune75 Guest

    Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
    What?
    Actually Most of the "gun enthusiasts" that I know do make their own rounds when it come to match shooting, but in reguards to most hunters I know they purchace their rounds. They purchase the rounds from companies that make a profit from selling to hunters and others that would rather purchase ammunition rather than make their own.
    Here's the parallel. Removing ammunition from woodworkers would be an economic hit to the woodworkers that sell ammo, just like would happen if all firearm users in the US were required to create their own ammo.
    I don't see that ammunition "ruins the economy" whether a game economy or a real life one. (which was my original point)

    Having said my point, I can also say this I like the ideas of dropped ammo found in game, and perhaps of higher level ammo found on raid mobs, but I don't favor scrapping ammo entirely.
  2. ARCHIVED-General_Info Guest

    Kitsune75 wrote:
    There might be a way to make both sides happy what if the quantity of arrows produced per craft were increased and the bonuses on the arrows were higher and the eagle's talon bows did not require ammunition (but the bonuses on the arrows would be enough enticement to buy/craft them).
    I have seen in many games that ammo for ranged non-magical classes is a sticking sore point. mages don't require ammunition all classes use power for their attacks so why dont mages types have some sort of magical ammo for their staffs?
    people like things to be fair ranged classes that require ammunition while everyone else doesn't see ammo as an unfair economic or time disavantage(buying or crafting).
    Making arrows is a grind i would be happy if they yeilded double or triple per craft even if the fuel and resource requirements were equally increased because it would reduce the time spent making them.
  3. ARCHIVED-Errror Guest

    I go through 10k worth of arrows a night on a raid. Arrows are 25silver each on SP. 50gp a stack, so thats 25 Plat a night on arrows alone.
    With Reforging coming, I'm totally considering dropping my MA adorns, gaining some MA elsewhere, and Speccing ammo conservation adorns.
  4. ARCHIVED-CyclopsSlayer Guest

    Even just solo leveling 81-83 in the Sundered Frontier yesterday I went through most of 2400 arrows, one partial stack left at the end of the day. Also went through several vials of poison, but that is largely trivial.
    Some days I can get them crafted for me for mat costs by a guildie, but not yesterday. Spent a bit over 4 plat for for 1 days play. Show me another class that has a constant and continous drain on their pocket just to play, come on, Warlocks? Wizards? Bard getting charged for lute strings?
    Ranger is still fun to play, but if it gets to Raiding and needs to beg on a street corner every day just to afford a nights work... we'll have to reconsider things.
    Until then I guess I will keep killing things with Plat Poisoning. Feeding raw coins to mobs until they choke to death.
  5. ARCHIVED-Kitsune75 Guest

    This might work.
    Next time a raiding ranger runs out of arrows, completely fill up your quiver with vendor tin arrows and then engage in the raid. When you're brought to task about your parsing, go through the motions of comparing all your gear and items except the arrows to find the flaw; save the arrows for last. Once everyone is good and riled up, then tell them that you were short on cash and purchased the tin arrows in a pinch and wait about 15-30 seconds for the shock to wear off (and the shouting to die down).
    Then remind everyone that the time and expense that you spent on your toon was the same as everyone else, and in fact, you just went over it in fine detail. Finally, remind your guild that raiding is a group effort, and if the raid wants the best DPS it can get from a ranger, then they need to group up and divide the ammo costs.
    It's logic and sound reasoning. Should work like a charm.
    --Kit
    must learn to type...
  6. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Haha that's a long way for a little bit. And there's no way I would basically punish my guild for SoE's mistakes.
    I think the most likely compromise is to increase how many arrows we can craft at a time. Considering how high multi-attack can get.
    500 arrows at a time seems reasonable, just add some new recipes to ammo that use 5x the amount of resources but put out 5x the yield. Ideally I would like some way to customize how many I am making at a time, though. Right now crating arrows 100 at a time when the stacks go to 200 and most rangers use mutlple stacks a day, it's just a boring tedious chore. Increasing the yield would at least help with the 'tedious' part.
    I really can't see how this would be objected to by anyone. Except maybe people who craft other things and would like a way to craft multiple things at once, which I really wouldn't have a problem with. Just make it so it only gives experience as if it were a single combine instead of 5 at a time.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the devs had some sort of 'balance chart' or methodology that this would fly in the face of though. Probably the same one that says ranger bow CA's should do less DPS than melee ones lol.
  7. ARCHIVED-CyclopsSlayer Guest

    Question? What is the actual cost to make that say Titanium field point arrow?
    Does it truly cost 12-20 Silver for each and every arrow? Or is someone guilty of a bit of profiteering?
    It sure isn't the cost of the wood and metal, which I and others drop tons of into the guilds resource depot. Sandpaper and the amortized costs of training and time spent that seems to be heavily marked up part.
  8. ARCHIVED-General_Info Guest

    Rejek@Crushbone wrote:
    If you really want to check out the cost per 100 arrows it is as simple as looking up the recipe on the wikia and then looking at the price of the sandpaper per unit multiplied by how many is needed in the recipe.
    In any case i have seen simple products which have no combat use listed on the broker for 400% the cost in fuels which shows it is always good to know how much stuff really costs to make.

    increased arrows per craft with equally increased resources is a good solution for those that make their rangers woodworkers so they dont get ripped off by greedy people.
    However this would advantage all those greedy people, personally i would prefer if classes which require ammo for their weapons got a production bonus on the ammo type their class uses when they craft them. (throwing knives, throwing hammers, arrows)
  9. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Cost itself is a non issue for me since I make my own. I get resources 'free' from the hirelings and only pay for the fuel. My issue is time sink tedium of actually making them. If I played anything but a ranger I would probably just buy them off the market and pay the premium for instant arrows, but I go through FAR too many arrows to justify that cost. If I could just make 2000 arrows in 1-4 combines I would be MUCH less annoyed. As it is its more like 8-10 combines for a short term fix.
  10. ARCHIVED-rocthorne999 Guest

    Myth clicky...ammo conservation and arrow reclamation...you will never run out of ammo...oh and if you have yellow slots that arent occupied use conservation adorn.
  11. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Are you insane? I have my myth (obviously) and maxed out arrow reclamation, I'm still burning through ~2000 arrows a raid night if i'm lucky. And anyone who would use conservation adorns is doing a poor job of playing their ranger, as a DPS class anyway. I guess if they are mostly RP'ing they would be fine.
    I'd still like to see arrows converted into say, 'quivers' that act like food. Increase the ingrediants needed for each combine and make it so each use of one of these quivers provides arrows for x amount of time. Making it time based instead of object quantity based. At the very least increase the yields of arrow combines so people who want to adventure don't have to craft so much.
  12. ARCHIVED-rocthorne999 Guest

    Your saying your going thru ~2000 arrows per raid? then again i havent raided at endline with ranger so...that may or may not have something to do with it...then again i didnt go through arrows that quick when i would do dungeons all day.
  13. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Well monday night i made sure I had a full quiver at the beginning of raids. I then used ACT to add up time in actual combat opposed to just saying I was using arrows for the entire raid time.
    I figured out that I used roughly 34 arrows per minute.
  14. ARCHIVED-Landiin Guest

    rocthorne999 wrote:
    What is you ma 50? I just just about deplete a quiver of arrows in a night of raiding on my ranger.
  15. ARCHIVED-Corwinus Guest

    I concur with Neiloch and Toranx,
    When raiding HM for 4h30 I bring 2 spotted leather quivers (26 slots each so 5200 arrows per quiver).One with titanium field point arrows for trash, the other with spirit blessed field point arrows for names.By the end of the raid session the Titanium arrows quiver is empty and the Spirit blessed quiver is half depleted.
    I have the 5 points in Arrow Reclamation and my unbuffed MA is 445, with various buffs it can jump to the 530-580 range, so it is hitting 6 times consistently (I am not even mentioning flurry and Aoe attack which enhance even more the arrow consumption). This MA range is more and more common for a raid ranger these days and it will be even more when crit mit is removed because we will then be able to readorn to more MA among other things.
    That topic of endless quiver is like beating a dead old horse unfortunately but maybe a mechanic that makes sure that we spend 1 arrow even if we multi attack x6 would already be a plus. I made the cost bearable by making a lvl 90 woodworker, any ranger does at that point, so the idea that if we are given an endless quiver it would "endanger norrath economy" is a moot point. This arrow situation is just an annoyance.
    Cor
  16. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    I don't think they will remove ammo or add endless quiver ever. Even though its technically possible to enact a 'endless quiver' if you want to sacrifice adornment slots just so you don't have grief no other class has to go through for their basic auto attack.
    It's gotten to the point where my ammo is really the only thing I dread seeing. I like all the other general mechanics in the game or have come to accept them, but every time I get excited to play that is instantly knocked down a few notches after I realize I am going to need AT LEAST 2500 arrows ready to go.
    More than anything, ammo should be looked at simply because it is ZERO FUN in a VIDEO GAME. You find me 1 person who TRULY feels that managing, crafting or selling obsurd amounts of ammo is the absolute highlight of playing EQ2 and I will shut up forever about ammo.
  17. ARCHIVED-wullailhuit Guest

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