Remove ammo or endless quiver

Discussion in 'Ranger' started by ARCHIVED-Roxus, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. ARCHIVED-Roxus Guest

    I posted this on extended as well:
    Devs, Is it time for ammo to be removed from the game or give rangers endless quiver?
    Many of the mmo's have removed or do not use ammo, Everquest 1 has Endless quiver for Rangers.
    Endless Quiver could be added in the ranger tree under shadows instead of reclamation?
    I myself never buy arrows off the broker and I get friends to make them, but we use so many even with Arrow
    I am currently working on getting one of the Bow's from Deathtoll that will create ammo but no luck yet.
    What do u guys think ?
  2. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    While I agree 100% it's been discussed at great length by the players and unfortunately with no dev input on those threads.
    All I ever see now is "it's not hard to get arrows" used as a reason why they don't need a version of endless quiver or removal of arrows. In reality it's just another reason why they SHOULD get rid of arrows, its so minor. At most right now it's busy work, it's not some huge feature that would be missed. It just takes up time and space and doesn't contribute anything to the fun factor of gameplay. It's useless fat that needs to be trimmed or a troublesome organ that you could easily live without.
    Then again the devs might see it as a money sink and don't want to get rid of one. Also might be a crafter problem since that is most of the woodworkers business as far as I can tell. Of course most people I know that use a lot of arrows just make a woodworker and don't even participate in the server economies in that capacity.
  3. ARCHIVED-Kram337 Guest

    I have two ideas for arrows:

    • Mobs start dropping generic arrows in small handfuls. When looted they become the type you have in your quiver or maybe just random types drop

    • Arrows stop becoming stackable, they're just like a regular equiped item an you can craft them, quest for them, or find them as loot drops. So like you could get a fabled quiver/arrow from a raid mob or something
  4. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Sony, please do not remove ammo or add endless quivers. Making the change suggested above will erase a section of the economy and make arrow crafters very unhappy.
    Please look into what is eating up all the arrows and fix it to reduce the amount that gets used. Perhaps making only auto attack/multiattack the only things that use arrows.
  5. ARCHIVED-loramil Guest

    Raahl wrote:
    I believe this is already the case; the only caveat being your CA's don't work if you don't work if you actually run out of ammo.
  6. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Raahl wrote:
    The fact that there is an entire economy based on just crafting arrows shows how badly designed the whole system is. Even if you called it a 'ammo' economy a huge share of that would just be field point arrows.
    Well hey they could make the new mage auto attack use some sort of reagent. I'm sure they plan on making that powerful even though it will be introduced 'weak'. It will be a HUGE act of hypocrisy if they make caster auto attack anything remotely as powerful as melee or ranged auto attack and not use some sort of ammo, since it would completely destroy the argument of it being a ranged auto attack and that's why it needs to use ammo to 'balance' things out.
    I'm afraid they just designed a piss poor system and won't go away any time soon. i can only hope they learn from their mistakes and won't make EQNext use ammo and only have a 1 class use it more than any other class by a ridiculously huge amount.
  7. ARCHIVED-Raahl Guest

    Let me add, It is unfair that Rangers have to basically pay money for their DPS. I could be swayed toward some solution that allows them to reduce this amount greatly. Heck I could even be swayed towards the removal of standard ammo, but keeping special ammo that they can use to maximize their DPS. Want the best arrows then it will cost ya.
  8. ARCHIVED-Banedon_Toran Guest

    All the MUD's I ever played before EQ2 would allow the archer to loot a certain percentage of arrows from the corpse of the mob they killed, e.g. an archer might use 40 arrows to down a mob, but would loot 20~30 arrows from the corpse. Obviously if you fail to kill the mob you don't get your arrows back.
  9. ARCHIVED-GussJr Guest

    Or change "makeshift arrows" back to what it use to be, prior to SF (so we can make our own ammor again, isntead of saving a percentage)...but improve the stats of the arrows we make...
    edit: spelling police
  10. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    GussJr wrote:
    makeshift arrows was terrible before the change. Besides the obvious fact that they were THE worst arrows in the game, they also would have needed to be changed at this point to summon MUCH more. They never seemed willing to make the arrows on par or better than handcrafted ones. This was evident by the AA they tried to make for it to summon arrows just barely worse than handcrafted instead of a lot worse. So that whole idea was given up on pretty quickly. Even though I LOVED the fact on Vanguard rangers could make their own arrows through stuff they foraged, and they were the best arrows available to them. Vanguard rangers are still the best example of a ranger I have seen in a MMO to date.
    I still think a good compromise would to make ammo work the same was as food, then turn all our arrow conservation stats into stats that extend how long they last. This could also expand on recipes as well as providing a way to craft more at once. You could craft 'bundles' of arrows that last different amounts of time. Small bundles last a half hour, large bundles last an hour, giant bundles last 3 hours for example. Then make them usable in current ammo containers as to not make ammo containers useless. Still using ammo we have to buy from crafters while circumventing the issue of good/high stats making us use ridiculous amounts.
  11. ARCHIVED-Kram337 Guest

    Banedon_Toran wrote:
    That sounds like a fair deal to me. In fact I really like that idea.
    If I want maximum DPS it costs me 10p for 200 arrows. Blessed field point arrows. There's no way I can even come close to affording that, so instead I buy the worse ones for 42g a stack. Even that ends up being pretty expensive since I can go through 1000+ arrows a day.
    I just wish my auto attack was free like every other class in the game.
  12. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Kram337 wrote:
    This is kind of what I was hinting at when talking about the soon to be added caster auto attack.
    The big argument for bow auto attack having to use arrows was that it's the price you pay for being able to auto attack at range. Well, they are adding a ranged auto attack that will presumably not 'cost' anything. This would effectively render that argument useless unless they want to be obvious hypocrites. They are introducing it 'weak' but they wouldn't be adding it unless they plan on eventually leaning on it more heavily in the future.
    I'd LOVE to have a developer answer this question: If casters are getting a 'free' ranged auto attack as a source of DPS, why are rangers still having to pay for theirs?
  13. ARCHIVED-Surly Guest

    Who wants to lay odds that somewhere down the line they'll replace the Befriend Animal AA with an ammo conservation AA, then tell us they hear our concerns and have taken steps to rectify the situation.
    Except we'll still have to waste AA to get an ability that other people get for free.
  14. ARCHIVED-Hellcatt Guest

    Neiloch@Butcherblock wrote:
    LoL a mages only ammo is mana But I agree no class should have to pay money to DPS. And I am sure that mage auto attack going to be quite a bit less powerful than any other autoattack.
  15. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Raeleafrae@Lucan DLere wrote:
    In principal I agree we shouldn't have to waste an AA endline for this, but even if they did that (which I don't think they will) I would still get it.
    They will never get rid of ammo because it would make some minority of tradeskillers mad and it would get rid of a money sink, small as it is.
    I still think its BS and hypocritical that mages are going to get a ranged auto attack that doesn't require a reagent to be used.
  16. ARCHIVED-azogouhl Guest

    The "money sink" involved is so small it's ridiculous. The majority of the money is staying in the player base, making the carpenters rich and the rangers poor. The impact on other classes is insignificant. The only way to fix the problem is for every ranger to be a carpenter and spend 70% of their time harvesting/crafting and 30% adventuring.
    I am still a firm believer in the vanguard system of; forage these 3 items, combine them to make stack of arrows. Even better, they make THE BEST arrows in the game, and they are useable by rangers only.
  17. ARCHIVED-Landiin Guest

    One really don't understand this until you play and high level ranger. I know I didn't until I stated raiding and really playing him. Wow do we go through the Fn arrows. Something needs to be done about this. Now that mage's get ranged auto attack and don't have to use ammo it is really unfair to us rangers that have to spend plat on good arrows to DPS where others get to DPS for free.
  18. ARCHIVED-Kohast_Fel Guest

    I like the idea of being able to swap out my ammo to do different damage types or have bonus damage rather than having an endless supply of generic ammo.

    Keep ammo in the game. It is one of the things that ruined another game I will not mention.
  19. ARCHIVED-Kitsune75 Guest

    ... I was going to post about there being 342 companies in the US that solely make small arms ammunition according to a small business search site. This was in reference about "arrows ruining an economy", but then I noticed the date of the post I was going to quote.... I think that person has died of old age. Way to necro. :)
  20. ARCHIVED-Neiloch Guest

    Kohast_Fel wrote:
    I like that idea too but too bad it is at best poorly implemented and any sense of that is an illusion. Anything but 'field point' is sub par on any content that has difficulty, and any performance increase the other types of arrows have are negligible, unless you like min/maxing for solo and outdated content, but anyone who does min/max use field point all the time anyway. At least repairing equipment is part of a death penalty which is pretty low as is.
    Arrows are a boring chore and a pointless, small, moneysink. It's easily manageable creating arrows of any type before I start running content. But so is turning a small crank for a half hour before I start my day, doesn't mean I have to like it. Especially when it can easily be done away with, and no other class has to do anything remotely similar.
    Kohast_Fel wrote:
    If you are referencing WoW, that game was very much ruined before and after they simply removed ammo. Little impact outside of getting rid of a pointless busywork chore thus a quick improvement 'quality of life' for players.
    Kitsune75 wrote:
    And? So? What? Comparing video game arrows to real life bullets doesn't draw a lot of parallels. unless you know of a lot of gun enthusiasts that create ALL of their own bullets, even one of the highest quality.

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