Webin@Befallen wrote: Thanks for that ! It's good to find out where it comes on that list and 13th isn't so great but I guess it's all we could expected without the ammo fix being put in. This puts the bow on about the same place as the Slythe bow which is of course much much easier to get. Hey ho. I guess a lot is down to the damage proc from the bow. If it's add significant DPS then this might make it worthwhile over taking the deaggro proc, depending on how much of an aggro problem you currently have with your current bow. If you're a raider with RSB or several of the other T7 bows, then of course this is just the first step and (hopefully) the final raid bow will be better than the T7 raid bows. Looking at the quest lore that seems to be building up whilst trying to get this bow, the raid version *must* summon T9 ammo, otherwise what's the whole point behind the lore? P.S. Have you updated the picture summary yet to include this bow as I couldn't see it listed on your other post ?
I am sorry, but for those who say this is a weapon that is pretty good for someone who groups and doesn't raid: You have to be 80 to start this quest, and if you are an 80, you can get in a PUR pretty easily for EH. You don't need a raiding guild, but if you can find someone to lead it who knows what they are doing, you can get all the way to picking up scales in under 2 hours. Personally, I am having a LOT easier time getting a PUR going then I am finding anyone to help me kill Wumpus.
At first I was dissapointed when looking at the bow, then I got it. I'm level 80 raid/pvp Ranger from Naggy. I would like to have seen an ammo fix - there does need to be an ammo fix - but I have to admit finding the range adjustment very clever. I am actually very pleased with it, and looking forward to seeing the raid version. Now that I've finished the epic quest maybe I can work on a signature that actually says I am 80.
Bryony@Nagafen wrote: I can see why that would be real nice on PvP, just don't get too used to it As soon as the other classes start complaining with "hey, Rangers can kit me and I can't hit them, but if I close in on them they can still hit me" then there will be a lot of pressure to nerf this. Hopefully for your sake though the devs will resist the calls. To be honest I don't understand why this "no minimum range" thing was put in. Did any Ranger ever complain about that with our Auto-Attack (I'm assuming CAs *are* still limited) ? The one thing that every single ranger wanted, whether they be solo, group or raid player, was summoned T9 arrows. Epic fail.
Actually, as nice as summoned arrows would be, I was just wanting a nice bow, which the epic is. Besides, even if it summoned special arrows (which the raid version may still), they'd just be broken like all the others.
If it summoned arrows..they would not be broken dude.. They would be lvl 80 and thus give 100% effectiveness with our 80 bows...fixt. Bryony can you pls confirm that combat arts do not work at point blank range with this bow. I know when equipping a longer bow the cas say they hit further so with a no min range bow maybe the cas can also hit from point blank?
But if you summon an arrow, regardless of what lvl it says it is, it's effectively still a lvl 67 arrow. I thought that was the crux of the whole ammo issue.
I can't remember where I read it, maybe flames, but I saw it confirmed that both ca's and range work at point blank range with this weapon equipped. I, myself, find it strange that we would suddenly go from being rangers to 'kings of point blank range'. Another riddle! I think the theme of our class is Batman and SOE plays the Joker. Undecipherable descriptions on level 80 class ca; our epics; and now, the newest riddle: why point blank range? Riddle me this, riddle me that... The whole thing has me confused. Anyone figured out what the second proc does yet?
all this work for such a marginal upgrade. I really miss the RC's stun proc. Too bad they couldn't carry that over.
Rodahn wrote: The assumption was, that if the devs put in a summon arrow capability then it would summon level 77 arrows (or even 80 if we were really lucky). There are no reasons why we can't have level 77 ammo. Remember people, the game has been designed to scale to level 200 ! I guess we'll see what happens with the epic, but I get the sneaking feeling that if it does summon arrows, it will summon level 67 arrows but with some strange new compltely useless proc. Perhaps giving us the ability to used ranged attacks from up-close (lol), is just softeneing us up for the removal of Rangers from the game i.e. we will effectively all become Assassins now...
After testing this morning yes Rigid Scale is still definitely more dps than the group version of our epic - meaning Ranger's effectively are stuck in T7 dps wise. We knew this, though - and we've all been complaining about it for some time now. I'm hoping the raid version will fix it. People are already complaining about the range adjustment, which I find absurd. I'll paste another post of mine from earlier today in response to Kruhl from my server at the end of this. Yes, I can confirm that we can now range point blank. Here are my opinions on it in response to Kruhl: (From the pvp forums) Kruhl is currently doing his best to get the Ranger epic nerfed by spamming his issue in at least three different threads across the forums that I've seen so far. Which, I find a little amusing considering the class he is and the skills his class has, but that's another issue. As for the Ranger epic - are you insane? First of all Rangers are completely broken right now. As far as our ability to dps we're stuck in T7. We have no ability to compete with a melee scouts dps right now in a raid or pvp setting. Since there is no ammo fix for us the epic bow - as far as dps goes - is useless for a T8 raiding ranger. I tested it to be sure this morning and the Rigid Scale Bow absolutely out-damages the Ranger Epic (group version) at this time. The only thing that makes this new bow worthwhile for a pvp player is the range adjustment - which I found quite clever on the part of the developers, and the only reasonable adjustment Rangers have seen in quite some time. It doesn't make up for our stunted dps, but it is something. If I were a Ranger on a blue server I would be complaining about it a lot more. The fact that a T7 bow does less dps than our T8 epic is ridiculous. I am hoping the raid version offers more to our class and turns out to be more badly needed dps for us. As far as the range being unfair in pvp. Give me a break. Hello ... Swashbuckler: Reach. If it's fair for a swash to use his melee combat arts from that kind of range it is absolutely fair for a ranger to have a chance close in. And, that's what it is: A chance. It doesn't make us over-powered, our dps is still stunted, and this is not an auto-win for a Ranger. Kruhl is whining that a ranger can now hit him close in, but the fact is he still does more baseline dps hands down and Rangers have no ability to lock-down an opponent like other melee scout classes can. A Ranger's only asset is our high-end dps and right now our high-end dps is not what it should be. Without an ammo fix and dps equality, the range is about the only thing a pvp Ranger has right now to make things remotely fair and competative. In pvp a Ranger still has no real advantage even though they can now range close in. It definitely helps us, giving us viability in close ranged fights, but let's not forget several of our combat arts also require stealth and/or position to be able to use. Not to mention the level 80 Ranger ability 'Coverage' cannot be used at all unless you have a good deal of range. This is not over-powered, it's not even totally fair yet, but it is a step in the right direction for fixing a class that is currently one of the most unbalanced and shorted compared to other scout classes like Mr. whiny pants oh my God I actually might have to work for my lunch now Kruhl. And, PS Kruhl ... the last time we fought one on one (I was using rigid scale), you lost - the bow makes absolutely no difference. The fact an easy-mode Brigand, who has the best skills and dps for pvp, would complain about someone else being over-powered blows me away.
I would also like to point out that the ONLY place this might make a difference for a pvp ranger is solo. Rigid Scale is still better for a T8 Ranger in group pvp hands down. The only thing a ranger has to offer is their dps, we have to maximize our dps and that means Rigid Scale. I doubt seriously many T8 Rangers will even be using the group version of the epic that have Rigid in many situations. The only place I will be using mine is solo pve/pvp and I still haven't tested it enough to know if this will even be the case. I hope to God the raid version is better. If my the raid version of my EPIC weapon sucks more than my Rigid Scale from T7 then there really won't be much point in being a Ranger other than simple love of the class. If you want dps/pvp/raid viability other classes are much better, and that's really a sad thing. People who complain about Rangers being overpowered right now are out of their minds and should try playing one before they complain, especially Brigands.
Where does the epic sit DPSwise to the RSB? Some of us don't have an RSB and are wondering whether this is going to be a big upgrade or not.
Rodahn wrote: I asked somebody who had both to do a /weapon compare on then with his "Tier 8" ammo equipped and these are the results: RSB - Min 837, Max 3082 Epic - Min 755, Max 2751 This is with RSB having a +10 DPS, and the Epic having +12 DPS mod added. His STR and DPS otherwise wasn't buffed (just standing around solo chatting), so your actual numbers will vary, but the general principle still applies. The RSB is way better than the Epic bow, unless of course you're a closet Assassin and enjoy standing right next to the mob...
Bryony@Nagafen wrote: The complaints about the minimum range effects on this bow are rediculious. Show me a good ranger, especially a pvp ranger who fights in the face of his opponent........We have some decent comabat arts we can use in the sweet spot, which are helpful in group and raid settings, but we are NOT a melee class, and playing that way will get a ranger dead rather quickly. I guess people who are willing to put the blood, sweat, and tears in to learn thier own class and play it well will always be looking for the next reason to complain about other classes.
Mr. Dawkins wrote: I believe the proc was supposed to be a 100% chance to turn you into an assassin. However it seems bugged at the moment. I'm sure with a bit more work though it'll be fixed and we can get back to meleeing the mobs to death, just like we did at game launch...
Bryony@Nagafen wrote: I'm tired, but it looks to me like you got that the wrong way around, and we wouldn;t want a dev using it as ammuntion would we now...
