Interesting discussion and numbers. Now where should priest dps be compared to each other? Look at the base class and their spells do get the answer. Clerics are healers and buffers. One buffs group to prevent damage, one buffs to make it do more damage. Shaman are healers and debuffers. Same difference as clerics but use debuffs.One debuffs the mobs ability to do damage to the group, the other debuffs its ability to take damage. Druids are different though. They are healer and dps. One is more aoe and one is more single target (with dps melee also). I think if you have any brains, you can figure out which ones should be doing the most dps. Now as for cleric and shaman and where the should be relative to each other and their subclasses (as long as it is below druids by about a third) that I wouldn't be able to say. Of course I say this from a perspective of playing a warden since Dec of 04 and having a 95 templer and defliler as well as a baby inquisitor ready to level when I get my other alts on my main account to 95. Not to mention comparing subclass spells and abilities over the years. Any one who might be able to out DPS a druid on a different subclass and probably has no clue on anything about other healers but their own will disagree I am sure, lol. I haven't seen any parses from equally skilled and geared healers of the different classes to see where they stand since CoE and lvl 95 came out so I don't know if the developers have gotten it right or not. In the past they have problems with the dps levels of druids compared to the other two priest classes.
As a Mystic with a fair mix of upper-end gear (a little 170ish gear left, mostly 186ish, a couple 195+) I'm normally doing 150-300K in group/raid. Lately I've been hovering around 230K on most fights. None of that counts big AE fights (might break 450-500K on AE group, depends on how many millions the others are doing, lag, etc). I average 1st or 2nd on the heal parse and 9th or 10th on the dps parse in raids (typically have the off-tank group). It is usually a Warden that competes with me for top healer dps; the Warden can get the jump on AE fights but usually can't keep up on single-target fights. Occasionally I've seen a Fury beat the pants off me, but typically its the other way around. An Inq can also compete for top healer dps on both single-target and AE; but I have yet to see a player whose tried to make a dps Templar so I don't know if they can do it or not, though I suspect it is possible to at least get in the 100-150K range (seems like every class should be able to do at least 100K in group/raid). Since we are talking about priest dps, I think it is also important to maintain your class role as healer. As a shaman I still need to be able to primary heal. So that 150-300K dps also includes a 5-30K heal parse depending on what is required (with zerg pulls in heroic CoE instances I've seen 200K+ dps and 50K+ hps - of course the Pally was also pulling 500K+ dps and 20K+ hps lol). I know I could pull more DPS with the other side of Prestige and some adorn/aa changes but the way I play requires survivablity. With one spec I can top hps with respectable dps and still solo heal a group or tank a heroic zone/hold a raid boss for a moment while recovering from an "oops". This gives me versatility to solo, group or raid effectively. I personally don't think your dps counts if you can't still heal effectively. The druids have the advantage of being the last healer to have an effect. Since a shaman or cleric heal will apply first, the druids can often cast nothing but offensive abilities and rely on side-effects for backup healing. The downside though is that in general this leads to the druid having more of a requirement for a dps spec or a solo-heals spec, with heavier sacrafices to one or the other when trying to build a hybrid spec (that may be more true for a Warden than a Fury). For clerics, the Inq has always been the dps-healer if they are spec'd for it and the Templar has always been the hardest to do dps with. But the fact that there's been no Templar rebalance makes be believe that Templar dps is possible if a body works at it. And now top healer dps is a toss-up. In the end I think it is much more about the player and the circumstance than the class itself. All of the healers can be mid-tier-dps or top-hps, and most can be both with a little effort.
Don't forget that if you are a mystic in mt you most likely get fury's wrath's blessing and or coersive healing which increases hps. Furys usually don't show much hps but they have two huge group's heals untamed regen and hibernation. These two i always rotate. Both bring group health from red to green very quickly. I don't even use my hots. If health stays green most of the time a healer would not show much hps but it doesn't mean he or she is not doing their job. And they can concentrate on dps. Higher fury nukes hit higher hps of a mystic with wrath's blessing. In our raid set up it's a case. Whoever has our fury's blessing parses hps the highest.
All good points Kraeref. In my case I'm usually OT healer and usually do not have a Coercer. Sometimes I do get a Dirge and so have the Gravatis bonus when its up. Having a Coe and/or a Dirge usually just means I get to stay a little higher on the dps if there is actually incoming damage to worry about. The Fury is always in the caster group so I don't get any Fury buffs. My preference is always to be paired with an Inq or a Warden. The advantage my heal parse gets though is that the group I'm raiding with doesn't use a shaman in the MT group (I know, I know). So I'm usually warding the MT and the OT which certainly pads my heal parse. In group though we almost never have a chanter, and only have a dirge about half the time. So my group hps is usually all me. In general my group setup has little bearing on my healing, but has a huge effect on my dps (hence the 150-300K range e.g. having a Brig and a Dirge versus a BL and a Ranger). In my experience, top hps usually goes to a shaman due to wards taking top heal priority. Bottom hps is usually the wardens, but again that is due to heal priority (and given normal healer setups). Like you say, a low hps doesn't mean the healer isn't doing their job (unless everyone dies lol). I've seen templars rock the heal parse though due to the raid-wide reactive in a raid with lots of squishies and without a shaman in every group. So heal parses really depend on circumstance. The only reason I mentioned hps in a dps thread is because a dps healer still has to be able to heal. =P
Sini, i advise you to beat up your fury in a dark corner. I am serious! If he doesn't put it on you being a shaman in ot group he doesn't then know what.the whole raid is missing. Wrath's blessing a spell can be cast on a raid friend and it's until.canceled By ideal set up it's correct. Furys are the best for a mage group. He just can hit ocasionally his biggest nukes and you get a nice bonus in healing and wards. It trully help you even more to keep your main tank alive. Coersive healing unfortunately a group buff and it's a bit strange that mt group doesn't have one for sheer hate management, but it's not my place to judge your raid set up not knowing the situation. But if you have a coercer he can occasionallly hit intellectual remedy which increases ward amount and healing by 15% aoe. Coersive healing casted on you would increase wards and healing amounts by 15%.as well. I was joking about beating but seriously these buffs would put less stress on you as a healer and you could get you dps even higher. Though you do dps high enough already helping your raid in fights.
Actually dsince I got some of my pvp gear i am hitting 100+k with no effort. My fury on the pve server seems to do similiar with coe instance gear
I will ask the Fury who they put it on - there's usually a Defiler in the mage group with the Fury so I'm betting that is the normal target. I don't really have to stress to heal my group and ward the MT but we do want buffs cast in the most effective places so it will be worth talking about. Thanks! Also, the MT group does have a Coe for the hate; they just don't use a Shaman - it is a Warden and a Templar and I don't know which one of the two gets Coercive healing. Its a strange setup I know, but its what they want to do and I'm just along for the ride! =)
Then i bet a warden who has coercive healing. Defiler doesn't really need a blessing. It's not hard to heal a mage group especially with two healers. Talk to your fury but be gentle ). He prob gives defiler also a group heal with cure attached to it called pact of nature. A defiler then can have two group cures which would be enough. Good luck Sini.on raiding!
Fury myth buff is targetable to any healer in raid. And should never go on a healer that isn't grouped with a tank. It's preferred to go on the MT or OT shaman, depending on which tank is harder to keep alive on any given fight.
Defiler can put out some pretty decent DPS - but it's mostly situational. The best example I can currently think of is in UDx4 in the room with the little drakes in big groups. I can do 200K-ish on that fight, with Nightmares and Defile (and I'm experienced, but not all that uber). If I'm out soloing - dps is faster than it used to be, but it's still like stabbing the mob with a nailfile.
I have done 1.3mil on the trash befor Everling named on my defiler. In faction gear and some legendary. First time i had a trouby tho! normaly parse around 100k-300k on named fights. They should make their damage spells faster casting tho... And change the dps stance... add dubbel cast on it as templars get...
