Poisons ARE a rogue/predator professional spell!

Is the poison an item or piece of gear? Since it is a stackable item that you cast upon yourself which then maintains, that translates into it being an item. Therefore it's an item/gear type proc and falls under the changes to items and gear procs. Plain and simple.
My troub's harmonization is broken, the bards can't use poisons unlike all the other scouts, my paladin gains 3% hate transfer he wouldn't have had from amends in normal groups and gains nothing in raids since he's capped on transfer before amends is even cast, my TSO T4 5 piece bonus on my paladin does nothing and with the change to procs it completely negates the 5 piece bonus on my troub's set, my wizzy's weapon's auto attack doesn't get used because I get killed by reposte thanks to no mitigation or decent health on my gear nor does it get boosted by my crit chance and looking at how much damage your auto attack can do you must obviously see why that hinders my wizzies potential dps output (in which case I'd like to either have a way to keep casting without power like scouts can auto attack, or boost mage's dps to compensate), my warden's heals don't do anything unless there is health missing from someone's health pool and is thus completely wasted, and I could go on with things such as the brawler's procs having been broken for longer than the predators have enjoyed the crit poison benefits or the summoners and their multitude of issues. The point being it's all a matter of perspective and seeing how little predators/rogues are losing I honestly can't comprehend why your knickers are so bunched up over it. Try really losing something because seriously the whole sky is falling garbage just makes your thread and fellow scouts look bad by association.
Your perspective is that you want the crits to stay the way they were because they had potential to be abused and exploited, or you just don't like getting nerfed even when it shouldn't affect you hardly at all nevermind this change should help make scouts even better than mages since the scouts aren't losing hardly anything in comparison, make your itemization simpler and more functional, and as an added bonus it will end up slightly nerfing mage's dps potential which results in making predators and rogues look better. There are alot of classes that have it MUCH worse and some are losing a lot more such as the troub's losing an entire piece of their top tier armor's set bonus which is coincidentally able to cause poisons to proc more frequently.
On another note, they're currently on a path to consolidate crits which will almost garunteed bork crits or severely deminish the benefits of which you would see especially on something like poisons in which case you'd be better off NOT having poisons follow the current system and rather just simply take the changes they're making since it will make you impervious to all of that drama that will undoubtably ensue and which will cripple a respectably significant portion of mage dps.

ReverendPaqo wrote:

first off.. im gonna give you some credit for at least knowing about what im posting in regards to, before posting against it.

but....
poison is not an item, it's a temporary spell/buff that shows on BOTH maintained AND normal buff window ( unlike item most item/gear buffs ) that can only be used by 4 professions. said 4 professions are dps professions, the main reason that item/gear buffs where adjusted is because there where non-dps classes ( healers/tanks/whatever ) padding their dmg with said procs.

you're just WRONG about bard proc bonus being negated or rendered useless by these changes or the palading 5 set bonus.. is not the paladin 5 set bonus just like every other tanks? +500 hp? i mean unless i misunderstood what you said and if i did and you care to explain, i would like to know about this *bug* or whatever it is you are experiencing.
now ( today in game )... mages are not behind scout in dmg potential. both are pretty equal and if anything when it comes to high end encounters ( you know the ones that drop the good gear ), scouts fall short unless they have a VERY good group and gear/skill. the stuns/detrimentals/aoe's beat the snot out of melee dps.
i play mages and am rather exited about changes coming up for the class. having 100% melee will give a small boost to the dmg all ready being done by all mages that know, it's important to melee a mob to squeeze every bit of dmg and TBH i feel that dev's should develop some caster range items with caster stats to deal out some range dmg while casting. i mean casters all ready have a dead range ammo slot, my casters currently have a +1 STR arrow from DFC. granted on some mobs you would not want to, even if mages had substantial auto attack dmg because of the reason give earlier.

btw.. you use the word exploit.. buy your own reasoning, i guess a paladin is exploiting because he has close to 100% melee/spell/heal crit? a chanter with STR line is exploiting too? really?

Davngr1 wrote:

First off in your OP you said you welcome input and views from people, so don't get snippy just because we share a different opinion by implying we don't understand the issue.
Poison is an item. I see it in my Rangers inventory. When I "consume" it it goes in the maintained window because it has a number of applications that the game needs to keep track of, and to let the player know that it is actually in use. I honestly wish poisons had never been put in the game just to add some extra damage to four classes. If you wanted to get technical none of the "good" classes should even be using poisons and in most games they are only used by "evil" people.
He also is not WRONG about the Troub set bonus. It adds an effect to Perfection of the Maestro that increases the proc trigger for items by 33%. When the change went in that made certain procs not able to be modified except by direct means that nerfed the effect of the set bonus. I personally don't think it is a big deal but some folks might. I cannot speak to the Paladin effects as I don't play a Paladin.
As I said earlier, this change was made by the mechanics Dev who plays an Assassin. It was not a mistake, and it likely will NEVER change. So I am just going to move along with the understanding that I am never going to seemingly be able to convince you of that single immutable fact.
Out.

Kulanae@Blackburrow wrote:

1. my exact statement was: " i welcome and(any) input or views on the matter, thanks." now you must understand that if you and the other 2 posters had "asked" about what you did not understand from OP, for one this would have been a different exchange but instead you (and others) decided to tell me, im "wrong" and write it off as nonsensical jiber jaber.. i don't fee i was "snippy" what so ever, instead my where very informative, you're welcome.
2. this is not about lore, this is about poison being part of pred/rogue profession. this is not some generic gear proc you can loot in an instance/raid. this is highly specialized ability designed just for 4 classes.
3. again BOTH of you need to get you FACTs straight before you post WRONG information. the adjustments did nothing to procs other then take their ability to crit and modified by spell dmg, any proc that is not affected by the bard gear bonus NEVER WAS.
4. see, i would rather keep the personal aspects about this argument out. if we start bringing into the discussion that the dev plays an assassin they you would have to prove that he still plays one and well... see that's personal and the dev's business. i think i'm gonna have to take the high road here and avoid your entire comment about that since it would be in bad taste.
on the other hand i can comment about your "immutable fact". it's called feed back, it's called participation, im trying to do my part to point out possible issues that take fun out of a class that i like playing. i already stated earlier that, clearly there isn't any interest in this subject now but it maybe become an issue with future planned changes and im looking ahead.

ps. this is a damage source all pred/rogue can benefit from, granted the high end assassin with endless "high procs" might have needs an adjustment to said "high end" damage sources BUT the casual pred/rouge NEEDS that class professional ability to stay competitive. indeed adjusting this source of damage works against balance in it's totality.

Nevao wrote:

/sigh no response to this one yet. Oh well.

Davngr1 wrote:

Whoops, meant the 4 piece. The paladin 4 piece set bonus is a reduction to our 12 second death "save" stiffle (durring which we are left at low health without the capability of using our heals that we were using prior to hitting red which translates into minus that much more from our incoming heals and you are garunteed death and very very poor chance of surviving especially compared to coagulate and bloodletter from a class that is respectively equivilant in required healing). Instead of being 12 seconds of stiffled suckiness, it's only 6 seconds of stiffled suckiness. Awesome 4 piece set bonus, especially considering we can just cancel divine favor and avoid the stiffle (not like any other tanks have to put up with that bs, so if theres a work around, why should we put up with it?)
Paladins do not get a 100% of all crits. Please, oh please, prove how any paladin can get that because they cannot and I would LOVE to see you try to prove even that they can get 100% melee crit and heal crit nevermind the double attack that we need badly or the other things we need. The crit changes will have more to them than just making all crits the same stat which as far as I currently know it includes effectiveness variations to each of the crit functions which will slaughter paladins effectiveness more so than anyone else (since SKs gain life tap crits off of damage spell crit and would therefore be affected the same % where as paladins need BOTH heal crit and damage spell crit to do what sks can with just spell crit and other fighters don't care about spell or heal crits and since crusaders are inherrently half casters, half melee I suspect spell damage crit wont be torpedoed that hard but knowing the track record of anti-paladin behavior exhibited by the devs I would bet on paladins being nerf batted into oblivion by this change. If they aren't, it would be one of the first times since GU13 they didn't get slapped silly with a nerf).
As for mage dps, what ever happened to heavy power draining fights, or fights with long range aoes because mages are quite squishy and take dirt naps when the mob farts where as a scout has a higher probability of living through it (if not by that great of a chance). Mages get additional damage from procs which have had their crits removed, scouts use poisons for additional damage in the same manner and practice so I do not see how nerfing poison procs to be the same as all other procs is out of line. By doing what mages do, they proc damage procs off of spell casts. By doing what they do, scouts proc their poisons off of attacks. Scouts have a variety of poisons just as mages have a variety of procs. Poisons cost extra to use where as mage procs don't run out, but scouts are much less bound by power restrictions than mages and have options in terms of effective poisons where as mages proc choices are pretty much damage or a farse proc.
To give you an idea of what that troub proc nerf did, my paladin will proc his damage on attack proc about 16 times a minute with potm's bonus up for only ~30 seconds and it also allowed me to spam everything quickly to proc more procs in a shorter time thanks to the higher % to proc. Without it about 6-8 times and my casting order stayed in it's "steady" cycle because there was no reason to try to proc things more. (Don't make me go get the parse logs, they're 2 gb and thats only this years logs.)
This variation in proc rate had to do with saving my fast casting abilities and the fact my weapon is 6 seconds which the longer delay increases the chance of a proc when I actually do hit after all the math is said and done which allows me to artificially increase my average proc rate. That 33% extra proc chance may not seem like a lot, but imagine an entire high end raid force with lots of procs going off getting an extra 33% to all proc chances alike across the entire raid for ~30 seconds. Thats not something to scoff at, and it DID affect alot of procs before they made procs unaffected by other procs, otherwise there would be very few bards that dropped their T4 5+ piece bonuses in favor of getting the additional spell and ca damage proc from 3 pieces.

Nevao wrote:

look up fan fair post on the interwebz man. i'm here discuss future impact to scouts that use poison not tell nevao about up and coming content. you're a smart dude, i knowz you can do eeeet!

ReverendPaqo wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

Sorry but I haven't been able to find that "fact" anywhere on the internet, despite "searching the interwebz", and I'm not the first person to question you "knowledge" on this claim. You are either mistaken or making up it up. However after repeated requests to back up your "Facts" you have not which leads me to believe that you are not interested in discussions, you're not interested in differening views. Instead you just seem to want us to rubber stamp your OPINIONS. That said there's not point in continuing on as you will most like just keep spouting more items that you refuse to back up and think that that constitutes a valid argument. Good luck with your endever, though I personally feel you're far past left field on this one.

Nevao wrote:

i apologice if i came off as rude, now i understand the tone of your post since you had no idea about future changes.
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=460198

thre you go man.. that shows a small tid bit into future mechanics in game. granted nothing is solid but at least you will understand the general dirrection and why i made this post. perhaps this post was a tad bit premature but.. i dumb like that sometimes :\