Maer, divine aura isnt 100% reliable, you know it. If divine favor has already been spent and I use divine aura, the chance of dying is very high. Divine aura and cloak doesnt save from one-shots that are the main paladin problem. If I was still alive after using divine aura or cloak, I'd survived without using them. Im not saying that I have a problem, I say that the chance of death a paladin as MT is much higher than guardian or monk. We dont have many abilities to prevent damage, which often kills instantly. And what about aggro - holy ground is now very weak, one position isnt great. And Im not saying that paladins are very weak or something like that, I just want to devs corrected obvious errors that are associated on 100% with scaling (all of them). 1. Manawall. 2. Our ward. 3. Hp increase numbers on devout sacrament (+1067hp), group heal (+1131hp) and LOH (1454). Thats all.
Divine Aura IS very reliable. It's not perfect, but it works well in most situations. The two highest damage fights right now for tanks are Commanders and Generals in ToV. Both of which have adds doing most of the damage, all of which is blocked by Divine Aura. There are almost no one-shots in the game currently. Increase your mitigation or something. All tanks are just as vulnerable to random one-shots as paladins, because they are in fact random. A guardian can't say "Gosh golly, I bet I'll die to a one-shot in a moment" and put something up.. no. He has to hope just as hard as we do that he isn't in a downtime, which against guaranteed one-shots is lower than ours, but against normal high hits is even higher. To say you're only dying to one-shots is impossible. And even if it was, that's much better off than the other tanks are, who can still die to anything. Holy ground works just fine.
You mean to say that the divine aura will work on commanders after they get buffs and will literally kill by each strike? But now tell me, Maer. Do you agree with those things that I've written a little higher? Im talking about manawall and ward in the first place.
Yes, they should be improved. No, they should not be improved right now. Commanders killing after each strike is a fail effect. Kill them evenly. Or at least don't let a single mob live longer than Stonewall and Faith last. Again, bypassing failure effects is not a balance focus.
Well, now we dont have any advantage in this part too. Im talking about the latest taunts changes. Today in the raid for fun I even canceled amends and had no problems with aggro. And I dont understand why dragoon reflexes have 3 minutes base reuse time, while divine aura 5 minutes. Previously they had the same reuse time. By the way, I was thinking about divine aura. When devs have added it to the game, crusaders were considered as tanks for adds that dont cause much damage, but hit often. But since then, many years have passed, and devs have called paladin MT tank. I think it would be correct to add some ability in paladin AAs that would change mechanics of work of divine aura. For example "Will absorb all attacks when the amount is more than 50% of targets maximum health" or raise the threshold from 50% to 70%. Maybe when you are very well dressed, the divine aura helps (not always and I willnt call it reliable), but when you dont have the best gear and your hp is much less, the benefits of divine aura greatly decreases, it becomes literally useless. This is especially obvious at the start of the x-pac, when the raid geared very poorly.
As a guardian I should say that paladins need love. I agree about divine aura, if devs will add the ability to change the mechanics, those players who go on raids and those who prefer the heroic content, would be able to choose what they need for their purposes. Since mobs began to hit very hard, this idiotic restriction turned divine aura in a lottery, I dont understand how you guys are afraid when you press it, when I use reflexes, Im sure that I will survive, the aggro question is the second case, but I survive. We have a paladin in our raid and he is ok, but I personally have repeatedly seen him die with active divine aura, the last time it was just for a couple of days ago, on generals in ToV when he got 4kk hit .
I have had one or two hits this entire expansion break through divine aura. You are not using it properly if you are having trouble with it. Or you're failing a script. Generals do not hit for 4 million.
They do, Maergoth, they do. It was flurry or multi-attack, no matter. And it was partly because of the buff they got on the remaining 20% due to the death of one of the guys, but it doesnt wipe event, we had no problems with killing them with this buff, an exception is just that the paladin cant prevent most of the damage, as I (guardian) or our OT monk. I will never believe that only a couple of times for the entire addon you get hits through the aura, Im sorry. At the beginning of the ToV expansion you have no more than 1.5 hp in raid and you want to say that the mobs without nerf not hit at 800k or more? This is just ridiculous.
I'm not asking you to believe it. I've been at ~2m HP in raids since the first week with buffs. And no, mobs don't hit for 800k+ when they're debuffed properly, nor did they back then. Again, very rare circumstances on select mobs. We can't be the best at everything. Generals hitting for 4 million or so is a failure effect. They don't flurry or MA. Do you mean generals or commanders? Generals only hit that hard if their health is too far apart. Commanders only hit that hard if you don't kill them evenly. Again, you can't balance around failure effects, and any tank will die to a random 4m hit.
Sorry, I was at work. I m talking about generals in ToV and I give you my word that in the ACT logs was written hits the target for 4kk (multi-attack). I dont remember exactly, but if during the battle with the generals die 2-3 people because of generals (not adds), the generals will have a strong buff that increases their base damage. Some guys who are too lazy to change their rare armor and increase their hp, often die and generals get this buff. We have no problems to finish the last 20-30% with this buff, but sometimes (yes, its extremely rare, but paladin die from huge hits). Yes, you're right, any tank can die from random hit, but I as guardian with correct temps rotation I can completely avoid any damage to about 85% of the combat (any boss) if I use wardens abilities, I will be protected from damage approximately 90-92% of the combat. The same thing about monk. Paladin has much less abilities to survive ( lets consider only those abilities that save you 100%) and can protect themselves approximately 60% of the combat (if you count only abilities that completely reduce damage, the number would be much less, but the damage reduction works fine on generals), with wardens abilities paladin will be protected approximately 65% of the combat. Thanks to math, we can understand that when the tank is protected 92% of the combat, the chance of dying from random hit is much-much less than when he`s "closed" 65% of the combat. I repeat, its simple math. Until the last few days paladin had the aggro control and able to tank in a group without dirge and aggro always belonged to him . Now aggro isnt a problem for any tank and paladins main advantage over other tanks disappeared. Im not saying that paladin is terrible or something like that. I just want to say that compared to other MT tanks paladin has no advantages at all. Of course he can tank any mob, but the chances of his death is much higher. Moral of this xpansion is that survives one tank that can prevent most of the damage and If until recently paladin was in the raid because he had a decent surviveability and great aggro control, now aggro for all tanks equally.
I disagree, sorry. Those high hits do not scare me, and are completely avoidable. And while tanking, the paladin provides more DPS than any other tank will while tanking because of reflect. There hasn't been a thing all expansion that I have felt helpless against or wanted to use a different tank for. Which is why I'm the one tanking almost everything.
Yes, DPS is good, but a small DPS increase isnt important for the tank, frankly. I wrote that a paladin can tank any boss in this x-pac, but guardian or monk will make it much less risky. Of course, Maer doesnt agree with me is your right. I know you and respect you, I think its pretty good that we have different opinions.
Divine aura requires major changes. If you position paladin as MT tank, you should reconsider the amount of damage that it absorbs. Now this ability is useless and cant prevent serious damage from raid bosses, it can be used only for the heroic zones that can be completed without the tank. I gave up on this ability in AA in mind its uselessness in raid. In this expansion paladins are very weak and cant be good as MT tank, most of their abilities require serious changes: 1. Divine aura - you should give an option to upgrade it in prestige paladin AAs which will make this ability more relevant and add to it stoneskin for at least 3 first hits causing damage to over 50% of paladins max health. Go along the path corrections LoH and provide divine aura 3 stoneskins. 2. Manawall - this ability isnt relevant at all, it cant protect even from one auto attack. The need to change is essential important . I want to offer you the best option. Manawall must provide paladin reduce incoming damage by 50%, but not more than 10 attacks. Considering that the base reuse time is 3 minutes and 12 seconds duration, it will be the best option. If you dont take important decisions for the above abilities, the paladin will never be able to get into the raid as MT, would be preferable to take a monk or a bruiser who have very high avoidance and much more abilities for survival. With the latest changes to taunts, aggro is no longer paladins territory. And I dont agree with Maergoth. If devs look at the abilities for survival of guardian, monk and paladin, it will be obvious who is far behind.
By all means, buff my class. I'm already tanking just fine. I wouldn't mind an expansion of OP-ness, lol.
Maergoth, I dont understand, you refusing to recognize the fact that guardian and monk has much superior surviveability? The fact that you or another paladin can tank all mobs in this expansion doesnt mean that paladin is a good MT. There is no guild in the world that uses paladin as the main MT and it displays the whole situation perfectly. Your ward, divine aura and mana wall just awful and its true. Paladin aggro control now doesnt exceed aggro any other tank and this is also true.
Thank the gods that there are people who support my point of view! By the way, warriors have ability that reflects damage too, so our faith isnt so unique.
Yes, I know it. Nevertheless, this is not such ability that somehow makes paladin very useful in the raid. And Sk and berserker and bruiser can tanking any bosses, but the concept of MT tanks (guardian, monk and paladin) is that they have to endure hits much better and survive where AOE tanks will live with great difficulty. And at the moment paladin surviveability is somewhere between MT and AoE tanks.
I am Equilibrium's main tank, when I show up to raids on time Paladin aggro is still far superior. Divine Aura still functions extremely well. Guardian/Monk survivability is ONLY superior when you're talking about gigantic hits (3,000,000+) which only exist when your raid FAILS to perform adequately. Both of them also do less DPS, and provide less utility as a main tank. And if you think Faith isn't extremely powerful, you're not using it correctly. Maybe it is difficult to do, but it is rewarding. Even after the changes, it does between 1% and 5% of the mob's health during a fight. Up to 200 million damage per cast. Paladins are in a perfectly fine place right now. If Wing 3 is different than wing 2, then we can talk. Until then, Wing 2 is more suited for Paladin tanking than anything that has ever been in this game, lol. Have you watched my stream at all? I record everything. I have proof.
Maergoth, dont get me wrong, but I didntsee any of your twitches or your members, where you is MT. I saw your video from Andreis and you killed it in two tanks , our monk or I (guardian) tanking his whole fight ourselves without switching. As far as I know and have seen in your guild guardian is MT . And I dont use faith because Im not a paladin, but I know faith is primarily ability for survival, not for DPS. We`re talking about tanks surviveability. And once again, no one says that paladin bad right now! Its about that paladins have worse survival against the peak damage and that's a fact. I dont understand what you're talking about aggro, yesterday I tried to MTing without a dirge and I never lost aggro, never. If earlier paladins incredible aggro control could be called the reason why hes worse in terms of survival, this is no longer an advantage. And why do you say that the second wing made for a paladin? Because of the faith? It makes me laugh This topic is full of useful and important suggestions. I saw your post where you were agree about ward and manawall. If devs fix these two abilities, paladin will be really strong competitor.
