Paladin fixes

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Grisweld, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. Grisweld Member

    Ok so faith got nerfed a bit which isnt too big of a deal... im going to miss those 10mil triggers haha but could the devs look at least fixing the temp buffs on our heals and our ward? Its not worth getting the highest tier master because no matter what tier they heal the same %. Plus 1kish hp is kinda useless. Now the ones that grant extra mit are ok. But the temp hp needs to be more on line. Also please adjust our ward. 17k ward is also useless. Maybe change to 10%u of max hp?? I run at just shy of 1.4 mil in dominion and raids and a 140k ward isnt huge either but it makes more sense than a 17k one. Hell 140ki is roughly 1/5 of an auto attack in there. Please look at this?
    Kalika, Daalilama and Ranga like this.
  2. Wurm Well-Known Member

    ^^ What he said!
    Grisweld likes this.
  3. Grisweld Member

    Also sorry for bad grammar ... my cell hates me.
  4. Ranga Active Member

    My Pala agrees :)
  5. Kalderon Well-Known Member

    Go get the paladin some luvin ^^ if the rest hates him ;)
  6. brokenshieldd Active Member

    I agree as well ;)
  7. Grisweld Member

    Thanks for the support guys
  8. Grisweld Member

    Maybe my browser is actin up but it says this is under monk help lol?
  9. Estred Well-Known Member

    I've long felt and proposed multiple times that Shielding of Faith (self-ward) should be based on your STA stat, which is not quite the same as a percentage scaling off max HP. Either works as a means of making the Ward useful.


    Tangent incoming to other Paladin Abilities

    Since this is the fighter page I will also say that the reason Faith's Retaliation was capped is because it's a Duration Based Damage shield that can also augment group damage It can be buffed up to a 4.29 Seconds. I knew when I saw this change someone was going to cry nerf to Perfect Counter Attack without fully understanding how the abilities work. (Which I did see on a locked thread)
    - Divine Faith adding .99 Duration.
    - Ancient Advance adding .3 Duration.

    If the Paladin blocks over the duration a few multi-million hits for a total of say 7M a damage I have reflected on my Guardian using PCA. This means he has reflected 7M but in addition to that his group get's 3 Triggers of 90% of what Faith Reflected which before the Cap would have been 6.3M each.
    6.3 x 3 = 18,900,000 Total Damage per group member.
    Total Damage from Faiths Retaliation and Faith pre-fix = 101,500,000 Damage.
    Total Damage from Faiths Retailiation and Faith post-fix = 52,000,000 Damage.

    So the functionality of Faith is identical to Perfect Counter in relation to how they work on the tank casting the protection. The difference is Faith also reflects 24% Damage if it's an AE on all non-fighters in addition to 100% Reflect on the Tank himself. Then it grants the Group Damage Buff. While Faith has a shorter duration, it's still very strong and a very useful ability.
  10. Grisweld Member

    Although u seemed to have combined both abilities lol.

    Jeezus ima newb. Went back and reread the damn thing..... always thought it meant 1 attack.
  11. Grisweld Member

    Although u seemed to have combined both abilities lol.
  12. Estred Well-Known Member

    I got on my own Paladin when referencing that. Faith applies to the paladin, they have the AA to reflect group damage. Then of course there is Faith's Retaliation which grants the group triggers. Though if my understanding is off feel free to expand. I am simply trying to put out reasoning behind a change some probably will see as a negative change when still a 300% HP Damage Trigger can still breach the 3 Million mark since many tanks have 1M+
  13. Grisweld Member

    No no... i think ur right. I always understood it to reflect one attack within a 6sec window. Always wondered how i would get 6.8mil triggets in dom. Thank you sir for making me open my mouth and go re read it.
  14. Grisweld Member

    I don't think the change was a bad one. Ive seen it go as high as 48mil. Times that by 3 then 6 and you could theoretically almost kill armawhatever in a span of less than 10sec. Lol. Ill still be getting about 4.2 mil triggers... which im happy with :)
  15. Estred Well-Known Member

    Well I am glad to have helped you get a better understanding of the ability then and a thanks to you for having me recheck my calculations again.
  16. Grisweld Member

    Haha u bet. I actually follow u and a few others since y'all post alot about many things. Lot of good.info/reads. Even though my toon was made back in 2005a i still consider myself a learner since i quit at the end of KoS and came back at the end of CoE. Always happy to learn new things to make me better :) Now.... if a dev can maybe read my original post and respond ill dance st their weddin
  17. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    Actually, it is realativ easy. If SOE thinks Faith and Faith Retaliation , are in their front to start so they limit this and because there is not much to shake .

    Unfair it is to get it back once limited only to the paladins and not even with the warriors .

    Faith keeps fully equipped just 4 seconds and must be timed precisely . Otherwise it makes no harm if nothing happens in 4 seconds. And 90 % of nothing is nothing. Perfect counter the warrior on the other hand stops at 30 seconds in 30 seconds with safety consumed all 3 triggers and thus refects with certainty 3 times 100 % of the damage from Perfect counterattack.

    This is also ok so only if one restricts one from Reflect found that some mobs land damage hits with 127 million , which could reflect , we must also have a 3x limit 127 million counterattack with the Perfect counter because here the same applies !

    @ SOE -MOD -02
    This criticism is quite constructively . I'm sorry if that looks different in their understanding . But the fairness of the classes now heard even mentioned !
  18. Estred Well-Known Member

    Ingerimm the functionality of Faith is completely different from Perfect Counter in all but a single aspect, not to mention your trying to take a Class Ability (Paladin) and compare it to a Sublcass ability (Warrior). Do also remember that PCA is one of the ONLY reason's Guards are even used without it at it's current functionality the survival of a Guardian drops severely compared to a paladin. Also remeber Crusaders have a Reflect that lasts for 20 seconds, but it's not 100% I do believe it's called Legionnaires Conviction, it also is a Crusader Ability not a Paladin ability.

    Legionnaire's Conviction
    - Reduces incoming magic damage by 40%
    - 200% of the reduced damage is reflected upon the attacker
    *80% of the damage taken = damage dealt to the attacker.

    In reality be glad they didn't reduce Paladin Heals, which I have heard many call overpowered. I laid out in full detail why Faith's Retaliation was capped.

    FAITH was not capped. The Paladin may reflect all the damage he wishes, the Group-Damage proc (Faith's Retaliation) is what was capped. Your not understanding your own ability properly Ingerimm.

    Faith
    - Reduces all incoming damage by 100%
    - 100% of reduced damage is reflected upon the attacker.

    This is the Paladin's Baseline Prestige Ability

    Faith's Aura
    - Reduces the damage of non-fighters in the group by 24%
    - 100% of the reduced damage is reflected upon the attacker.

    This is the Paladin's Leftmost Prestige Augment AA

    Faith's Retaliation
    - Applies 3 triggers of damage to the group equal to 90% of the damage reduced by Faith
    - This maximum damage per hit cannot exceed 300% of the Paladin's Maximum HP

    This is the real ability that was changed. The Paladin's Mid-Line Prestige Augment AA.

    Divine Faith
    - Improves the duration of Faith by 33%
    - Reduces the base casting time of Faith by 1.5 Seconds

    This is the Paladin's rightmost Prestige Augment AA.

    I am sorry Ingerimm but knowing how your class works is critical to offering cross-class feedback. Your suggestion comes off as a Kneejerk reaction to cry out to nerf another classes ability regardless of how different the classes are. Warriors, more specifically Guardian's have far less self-reliant survivability when compared to Paladin's. Faith is a group protection/damage spell where PCA is a self protection/damage also we (Guardians) do not get free damage triggers on top of our Reflected Damage when Paladins' get their reflect and their bonus damage.

    To put it bluntly you can reflect 127 Million with Faith, however your Group-Damage Proc will only be 3 Million per hit.
  19. Ingerimm Well-Known Member

    @ Estred

    Sorry but my English is not good enough to argue with you here useful little things .

    The fact is that you by the quantity of information which you do and also which are correctly washed out the image .

    It is a 3-second capacity without upgrade and 4 seconds with upgrade compare badly with an ability which lasts much longer . For their use is much more difficult in terms of timing.

    And yes , we also have other skills, such as Legionares Conviction if you have this selected in the AA points. But this ability is tied to our HP and this only applies to magic damage. Does the damage with 140% of Maximum HP is one death and nothing is thrown back .

    And you've got, we could expand this capability in some respects, what the one-half cost us our prestige points, to be exact 12 prestige points for the full appreciation. More reprehensible it is to limit this.

    The "Perfect Counter" example Costs only 2 AA points and thus has all of his abilities, since you have nothing to upgrade it!

    Whether the skills to go on group or not play it only a minimal role .

    But I'll stop myself even further Talkshow , the paladins are nerfed again and again for 10 years, with other classes you rarely takes anything to weaken it up. This distorts the equal treatment and also the fairness among the classes . As long as one considers only individual points one sees all this however difficult.

    It is what it is , I'll live with it , as always , only meaningful discussion , there is little in this forum . I see in the discussions now no more constructive sense , which may expressing himself better, as this better the English language , you can moderate this discussion anyway not hold a candle .

    Let's finish here just the theme of the SOE team does anyway what it thinks is right and not what people would want.
  20. Grisweld Member

    Hey guys while i appreciate yalls interest in my post amd yalls info on faith is invaluable, I made this thread to get attention for fixing our useless ward and the temp buffs on our heals. I honestly dont think the cap they placed on faith made any real difference. I ran dom last night and it procced for 5.6mil instead of the usual 6.8. Im more than happy with that. So lets see if we can get fixes for my original post :)