New expansion coming, can I PLEASE be a Mystic in Freeport?

ChrissyFaey wrote:

You mean the same drama that people managed to get over and they kept on playing the game when all classes went neutral on the PvP servers? I highly doubt they lost many customers when every class went neutral on the PvP servers with the excuse of it "ruining their game play and role play".

Again, if a good SK simply ruins your role play, then put them on /ignore like you do anyone else who bothers you. You do not have to interact with them. If you are a role player, you're going to know just about everyone in the role playing community on your server. You'll add the good role players to your friends list, and you'll ignore and snub the people who do not know the difference between a fae and an arasai. You'll join a guild that has a role playing theme and mentality, and you'll associate with other guilds and players that role play. Your characters already pass by non-role playing characters, and you probably don't interact with them much, other than an /emote. Non-role players could care less who or what your storyline is about. We're just here to do OUR thing, and we stay out of your little world...just like you all should do the same with us, and let us be able to have changes to our little world.

If you role play in your guild hall or homes, and people come in to cause trouble with your brand of fun, then you block their access to your corner of Norrath. Just move along and go about your business...after awhile, people get bored when they are not getting you riled up and causing havoc in your life.

all classes should be able to live in any city of their choosing exept paladins they should all be exiled to sol's eye!

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

There is absolutely no truth in anything you have said in any of your posts in this thread.
For example, mystics have spells/CAs that cause disease. So much for your 'mystics are only good' premise. My Paladin has done a lot of truly evil things in EQ2 because this is a video game where I have to grind for AA which means I will take any quest and kill any NPC as part of the game. And his divine powers have not been stripped from him. In fact, because you seem not to know this, priests and crusaders are not required to serve any deity at all. Deities were not added until EoF.
What you can not argue away is that your arguments have no foundation.

okay let me explain this to you as simple as I can, Zach.
you're right, the gods were not made worshipable until EoF. the mechanics of the deity system were not there. the LORE of the classes very much so WAS. A cleric or a crusader, by the very defining of the class, worship deities. that's why I have spells like Divine Smite. or Smite Evil. or Holy Aid.
yes, a Mystic has spells that cause disease. So do Dirges. So do Warlocks. the use of disease spells does not make one good OR evil. Worshipping Bertox does...becuase of the requirements you are obligated to perform in his service.
yes, your Paladin, for mechanics reasons, will never have his paladinhood stripped from him. for mechanics reasons, I'm sure you've betrayed to exile to do quests for your quest count and not lost your divine power. becuase if they actually did make you adhere to the doctrine of Marr/Tunare/Brell....people would be screaming to high heaven about why they suddenly went from being a paladin to a guardian becuase they AEed to death a group of city guards for AA.
the Lore of the Games states that all crusaders and clerics worship the gods. that's where they draw thier power from. Shadowknights commonly worship Inny, Cazic, and Bertox. Paladins are most commonly Tunare, Marr, and Brell. but they do worship the divine.
a Mystic, as shown in the mystic epic, and how the class is defined, as well as the way the cities operate, can't do what they do in Freeport without becoming a Defiler. A mystic respects the spirit world, communes with it, and is an instrument of justice for the spirits such as thier ancestors and the Truespirit. They work with the spirits, or allow the spirits to work through them. yes they can curse thier enemies with diseases/debuffs and call on spiritual power to harm thier enemies and aid thier allies.
A Defiler doesn't gives two figs for the spirit world other then to see it as a huge untapped power source for thier own ambitions. They may, or may not, show respect for thier ancestors, but the rest of the spirits are fair game. they don't ask for help, they don't seek wisdom or guidance from teh spirits. they break them, twist them and force them to do thier bidding. you see that in the Defiler epic.
Now we'll look into Freeport. Freeport has a preist guild, same as Qeynos. Freeport's preist guild enspouses the virtues of Hate, Fear, and War primarily. the shamans of Freeport are Defilers. which means a mystic in Freeport would have to answer to, and work with, Defilers.
any misstep. any action that doesn't fit with what a defiler expects you to do draws suspicion. trying to make excuses draws suspicion. that's shown in dozens of quests in freeport and even in NPC talk. it's even in the betrayal line itself. you do NOT question your superiors, or thier methods. and you do exactly as you are told..or your a traitor and turned over to the Militia/Wraithguard.
a Mystic trying to live in freeport would have to use defiler methods. they'd have to behave as a defiler behaves. and not just by word, but action. and when you start torturing the spirits, bending them to your will and 'defiling' them..your not a mystic anymore, your a defiler.
and by the same token, a defiler couldn't stay in Qeynos. the torturing of spirits wouldn't be tolerated. they'd be driven out, arrested, or executed for thier crimes. if they decided to try and control themselves, to seek guidance and wisdom and work with the spirits rather then running roughshod over them...they'd no longer be defilers, but Mystics.

Coercers got into Qeynos because the a) she had insight into Freeport's Academy workings and b) Coercer spells had been taught in Qeynos for literally centuries...when they simply taught 'Enchantment'. not to mention, when you learn about them, the coercers are being closely monitored. and a big reason they were there is Bellengere the Three's support to learning new magics. Illusionists were allowed in freeport basically because two of the times Lucan got screwed over in Freeport was Tayil (using an illusion to appear as a Lucanic Knight) and Opal (coercer and master illusionist herself) he allowed the illusionists in to counter being screwed over again, and for similar reasons that Illusionst magic was taught a long time ago and basically only outlawed becuase of a duel between a coercer and illusionist in the first place.
bruisers got into qeynos based on the Ashen Order/Ashen disciples, same way monks got into Freeport. the Swiftails are martial artists that believe in meditiation, discipline, and focus...thier methods are none the less brutal, but thier ideaology is a monk order. the Graystone bruisers are basically Qeynos' fight club. they don't care about fancy moves or mediation or inner peace...they focus on physical strength and stamina. those classes were neutral in lore long before they were neutral in mechanics. a bruiser seeks enlightment through physical prowess, a monk seeks it through mediation and inner focus.
the assassins of Qeynos are an anti-terrorist unit. (also based very heavily on the assassin's of Assassin's Creed) they apply ranger tactics to urban enviroments, and thier job is to recognize the methods of Freeport/Neriak assassins and cut them off before they hit thier targets. the Red Hoods are a group of Green Hoods that are following the vengeful mission of thier leader based on the death of his beloved to an Orc (after his need to strike back at the orcs of Zek was denied). they are in freeport because that were the trail ended for that particualr orc/his subclan, and he bartered service training members of Freeport for a base of operations to hunt them. again the lore fits on what these classes are/do.
Inquisitors in Qeynos are taking the 'battle cleric' approach we adventurers already are doing. according to the lore of the Qeynos Inquisitor, all adventuring good guy clerics are inquisitors. thier 'inquisitor' is simply a cleric that wants to stand in the middle of the fight and heal injuries on site while bashing in the head of the creature that just caused said injury. the Freeport Templar is exactly what we would consider an Evangelical preacher. they preach the sermons of X god (or lucan as a deity) with insane fervor, converting people through inspirational and feverish sermon. the only difference between a Freeport Inquisitor and a Freeport Templar in the lore is if you turn down a Templar, he might get louder about your lack of faith and you might get in a bit fo trouble with the wraithguard about 'questioning lucan'..and the inquisitor will hit you in the head with his mace and torture you till you give him the 'right' answer.
And yes, while I wasn't thrilled with it, at least the reasoning made sense. you coudl see a valid path to what they did lorewise.
remember that all the 'opposing' classes are not hiding out in the other city. they aren't lurking in the sewer system or cowering from the city guard. they are accepted proffessions that are working parts of thier various guilds. how would you put a con man in a guild filled with cut throats, and keep him a con man without one of his brigand 'associates' slitting his throat and dumping the body in the harbor? yes you might have a personal story that allows it. just like I could have a personal story that says my paladin fights the good fight in Freeport. and yes, for mechanic reasons, Lucan can't spawn 7 unkillable wraithguard to beat me up and execute me at Execution Plaza everytime I set foot in Freeport.
there would have to be a reason that any mystic, at all, could live and work as a mystic in freeport. same as a swashy, without thier 'guildmates' killing them or throwing them out or Lucan himself not wanting them mass slaughtered.
from a lore standpoint..a defilers method is faster, but just as effective. a brigand gets the job done quicker, and probably with more profit. (looting thier body on top of stealing everything else.) Paladins Lucan flat out wants dead. all of them, without question but especially members of the Order of Marr.
if they gave you what you want, then they'd have to answer those questions. and this dev team apparently does take those kinds of questions a little more seriously then you might like...and like someone else stated it seems they wanted to keep 1 of each archtype 'good/evil'
Paladin/Sk was the obvious fighter choice.
I think scout coudl have gone Assassin/Ranger or Swashy/Brig...they probably found doing the lore aspect easier with assassin/ranger...so swash/Brig got the good/evil setting.
mages they picked the most obviously evil one (necro) so by default conjies are all goodies.
I think with priests they did the same kinda thing. Inq/Temp coudl have worked, so does Mystic/Defiler....but the Inq/Temp was a lot easier to do the lore reasons for(provided they coudl even come up with something for the shamans), so Mystic/Defiler become the good/evil set.

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

Ok, obviously you paid more attention to the epic lore, I just tried to get it done. In any case, your assertation that "The shamans of Freeport are Defilers" is true TODAY, but doesn't mean it can't change, just like it did for chanters. Before, the enchanters of freeport were coercers, and if you were to live in freeport as an enchantress, you had to act as a coercer. But see, that simply isn't true anymore. They simply added some Illusionist trainers to the mage tower, and voila, you can now be both. The same with templar and inquisitor. You used to have to torture your way into obedience to be a cleric in Freeport, but suddenly Templars are A-OK, even tho the other divinely blessed class, paladins, are supposedly the most vile things to ever step foot in Freeport. It makes no logical sense!

there is a way already to do this, it does cost SC though.
roll a mystic on nagafen on the freeport side. buy the transfer token and move it to your server.

The developers have done all that mystic is not overdamaged Inquisitor (i.e Anashti Sul)
I do not see another... reasons =\
Dark Templar (and good assasin) is a rare stupidity !

I think this thread should be moved to the Lore section! Lots of great goodies in here. I liked what one of the posters said and think it sums up the best reason why certain classes can't align with the opposite faction: ".. because by necessity you would then become [the opposite class] .."

inspire1444568 wrote:

i'd like to know your reasoning behind a good assassin being a stupid idea. both rangers and assassins kill people with stealth usualy in unfair combat conditions with the victim at a disadvantage so i dont see that as an alignment problem, they both use poisons so no morality issue there. assassin can jsut as easily kill somebody in service to their city/nation as can a ranger does jsut as much as they both can for some coin.
if you still think assassins are evil through and through why dont you look at the real world people are assassinated by outlaw groups, terrorists and nations/alliances regularly.

well Lucan's beef with Paladins goes way back to Eq1, when he used to be one...before Marr stripped him of his powers after the murder of another paladin.
and your right. sometime after EQ1, when Freeport became entirely under Lucan's control, (after he drove/tricked the paladins out of North Freeport area now known as the Graveyard) the illusionists and coercers basically had a 'anything you can do I can do better' fight. it culminated in a duel that would see the losing side ousted from freeport, on top of the academy. the Coercer charmed the Illusionist, and had her/him walk off the edge of the building.
however, after Opal stole Soulfire, and escaped from militia Hq and eluded an assassin using illusion, and then Tayil sneaking into the Citadel under the guise of a Lucanic Knight and getting Lucan kidnapped/stealing soulfire AGAIN....Lucan decided to allow Illusionists back in to counter any other attempts...and Opal still being alive, and a master enchanter, who's illusions are darn near impossible to see through, its in Lucan's best interests to have people that practice the art of illusion to help deal with it.
Even though he's a dumb*ss for trusting the Tier'dal in the first place.

but the mystic and defiler division in methods isn't like the coercer/chanter. both of them use enchantment...one just warps your perception of reality, and one warps your mind itself. example being an illusionist would make you see a naked woman jumping off a water fall which makes you chase after her and jump of a cliff into a pit of molten lava. the coercer just flat you tells your brain to do it like programing a robot.
the mystics and defilers...it's like a hunter and a vegan looking at a deer. one wants to shoot it, eat it, mount the head on his wall...the other wants to observe it, feed it, pet it, and call it bambi. (this case the 'deer' being the Truespirit)

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

So now hunters are evil? Just trying to understand you're comparison. Because honestly, living in the PNW, I know alot of hunters and none are evil for going hunting. In fact, I know this one woman who does observe, feed, pet and call a deer Bambi, then will gladly hunt it and butcher it for food for the winter.
Again, just because their methods are different doesn't designate who is evil and who isn't. Just because my mystic might revere the spirits doesn't mean she doesn't use them for her own evil intentions. As long as she feels its right and true, the spirits would follow her lead and do what she asked.

yohann koldheart wrote:

So I can server hop my swashbuckler for $25 to the PvP server, betray him from Qeynos to Freeport and remain a swashbuckler when he rolls on into Freeport. I then pay another $25 to move my evil swashbuckler back to Unrest. Now my raiding swashy can do Freeport/evil quests and follow an evil god without having to exile.
Because I want a good AND evil swashbuckler on my account, I'm going to have to then betray my brigand to Qeynos to turn him into a swashbuckler.

As soon as I do this, SOE will "fix" this "workaround" to keep evil paladins out of Freeport and good shadowknights out of Qeynos...and the other 6 classes that are screwing up the holy PvE-based lore. (To heck with lore on PvP!!!)...and I'll have wasted my time betraying 2 toons...not to mention wasting $50 to get what I want out of my characters on an account that I've been paying $15/mo for nearly 8 years. Yet, if I played on a PvP server...this wouldn't be an issue.

Talk about not being fair and balanced for people who play on PvP versus playing PvE.

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

Answer me this, Rainmare:

Let's say you decided to move to the PvP server and managed to find a group of people who role played while they PvPed. You would then have to learn to role play and interact with all 25 classes being neutral...just like you would have to do if SOE allowed the last 8 classes to be neutral on the PvE servers. Or would you opt to /ignore the players who are running around as good SKs and evil paladins, just because of who and what they chose to be is now ruining your RPing life?

myself? if I saw a paladin living in freeport or an SK living in qeynos as a member of those cities? I probably would ignore them. right now I'd ignore them becuase obviously they are from a PVP server and frankly I have yet to meet a single pvp player that moved to my sever who isn't a jack*ss of a person that I wouldn't want to spend time with in the first place.
if they opened up the pvp aspect on pve...thus making all the classes neutral...yeah I'd probably still put them on ignore. I might give them the benefit of the doubt at first, but thier disregard of the lore would severly lower my tolerance for crap I might put up with from someone else.
and if I moved to a PVP server, it would strictly be for alignment restricted battles. good vs evil, qeynos vs freeport. as they are supposed to be. not as they are right now where the crying Raiders got thier way rather then learn to work with what they had.

While I agree that they should go ahead and free up the remaining classes to be available on either side, I do think that they should have a special area that those classes have to hide in from the main populace. Like in eq1, the city was good but go into the sewers and you find the evil class trainers.

From a lore perspective aren't the two factions all teaming up to form the 'New Combine' anyway? Seems its about time these silly faction restrictions be removed.

Ulrichvon wrote:

becoming part of the combine doesnt make them any less enemies/rivals joining isnt membership as long as both empires shall live. if you've been killnig each other for so long suddly declaringp eace at the top of both factinos isnt gonna erase them mutal hatred and desire to violently kill each other in acts of revenge.

General_Info wrote:

Or look at it from another angle: the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Countries/cities that used to be enemies now get along (tolerate) each other because a new rival has shown up to try to shut them both down. Applies in real life like it does this game.

I know PvP raiding had a disadvantage due to class balance, and that did need to change. Likewise, this game had restrictions early on like not being able to share a bank with characters from opposite cities. I remember having a friend log in an alt that was based in Freeport and meeting me on the docks in TS to swap out stuff that we wanted to shuffle back and forth between good and evil cities. This was back when the blackmarket sold items for a 40% broker fee, and level 50 masters were selling for 75g each.

Times have changed. The game has changed. The lore has changed for PvP....make it so for PvE.

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

So you'd do what I suggested...use the /ignore feature that SOE has put into place for your enjoyment and sanity. Pity /ignore also doesn't make the ignored character go "poof" on your screen like it does in channel chat and /say, /tell, etc.

Honestly, I wish SOE didn't bother with breaking apart the original EQ1 classes like bards, rogues, monks, chanters, shaman, etc. Your class was defined by your race, and seeing a traditional tank class like an ogre being a wizard or a gnome monk would mess with my perception of EQ lore more than seeing a good SK or evil paladin.

the hunter thing was more on the idea that the way a mystic operates and the way a defiler operates...those two (hunter and vegan) will never see eye to eye on how to treat the deer (Truespirt/spiritrealm)
and yes, the Troll wizard and the Ogre brigand do annoy me. that ARAC thing. and yeah I do tend to ignore people that do that, mostly becuase they seem to pick the race/class combo just to make jokes on it...and usually have an equally idiotic or 'punned' name...and amusingly enough, most people that play actually seem to pick race/class combos that make sense. you atually don't often see a troll mage. or an ogre dirge or a halfing monk.

As to Combine Empire...yes, all the major cities are a part of it. and they are all part of it because Kerafyrm can destroy each of them seperately. there' no doubt on that. he only MIGHT not be able to destroy them if they present a united front. and make no mistake that Lucan and Antonia would sever that tie as soon as possible. that doesn't mean Qeynos and Freeport don't hate eachother, or that Lucan wouldn't still want to raze Qeynos to the ground if he had an opportunity to do so.
In fact I am fully expecting to see Lucan, the second Kerafyrm's body hits the ground, before his blood even cools, to try and strike Qeynos and dissolve the Combine in one motion. So being part of the combine isn't really a 'good and evil aren't there anymore' kinda of thing.
think of the Combine in the manner of world war two. Kerafyrm is the Axis. Qeynos is the US and Freeport is Stalin's Russia. Russia and the US may have hated eachother politically/ideaologically...but they knew better then to not team up againse the Axis.
and of course the second the Axis powers fell...the US and Russia were back at eachother's proverbial throats.