well you guys said in your little Q &A that you plan on keeping the myth cloak effects around attached to items in some way or another. So I thought we should revisit all the bad ones (nearly half) and hope we can get something decent this time around. http://eq2.zam.com/story.html?story=34266&storypage=2 I will offer my thoughts on the illy one (since it's what I play). and since the current illy one is garbage. I would much prefer something like an ability that makes Theorems AE/AoE. it wouldn't cause be something that is like "oh man OP ness!" but it would def be something worth having.
Since I only arrived in Norrath June of 2012, I do not know the answer to the following question: Were the effects on the Myth cloaks (the crappy ones of course) ever great at any point? I find it strange that SoE would release a Mythical reward for every class and fail to fix a good 75% of them that everyone can agree are just horrible and some would likely want to pretend never existed! lol. Unless of course, they were 'relevant' at the time of launch and just never revisited yet for an update.
they never were good, it really hurt, esp since they even changed some of them (I remember the inq and conj one got changed) to possibly even worse effects. the only good ones really are the warriors crusaders templar dirge wizzy necro coercer one would be good if it crit, but it doesn't but not to mention that they didn't even put in a channeler one because they were like "there is no point cause it's PoW" and than come around the corner and say "the effects will return in some shape or form" really makes no sense. so they are gonna have to add a channeler one anyway, may as well redo the bad ones too
Yeah I think Inquisitor was a 100% flurry clicky (maybe 50? I can't exactly recall), turned into 100% accuracy\ST and only 15% flurry. I guess with how much flurry you (Inq especially) can get for yourself this expansion, having 100% flurry on a clicky would be superfluous (seeing as only about 20-30% would be needed to take you to 100% total if you're already over 50% self-buffed). But then again, I run ~30% accuracy in raid and have near 0% misses so why change to accuracy and strikethrough? I guess that would help on the Brawler type mobs? I know how much I love hit rates on those guys! LOL Either way it's a strange scenario and here's to fixed clickies if they bring them back in another form! Edit: After reviewing the current Inquisitor cloak, we don't rate that badly on the "worst of" list. But still not what it was prior and definitely in need of a review.
I really dislike the whole idea of the class specific effects, because no matter what you do, some classes always do far far better than others. It was the same for epics, the differences between them are far too varied, and just causes more harm then good. At this stage, I'd almost prefer it if they took the time to just make them archetype specific, so Tanks get something like a 20s 50% DR, or something generically overpowered, which doesn't favour one tank over another. Scouts could be 100% range increase on Melee attack + CA's or something. Revamping the old PoW effects onto new items isn't going to make anybody who isn't a Dirge/Templar/Guard/Crusader/Wizzy/Necro consider using them. If its going to be done, either all of the effects need a total overhaul, or just don't bother imo.
basically yea. and for some reason I have a feeling it's gonna be some item on the boss in wing 3 (normal loot or maybe even his 1 pull "bonus loot") and I will be very depressed if I am right only to see the same old crappy myth cloak effects
So we have plans for these. We won't be releasing them as class specific again. We may be making some of the effects available to more classes. It will not be until the expansion this year. Errorr, the idea of the archetypal versions is something we are looking at. So do not expect one effect for each class and them all being tuned to you. That is not going to happen. Again, we may however open up some of the good ones to more classes. No, they are not in Dreadcale's Maw.
Very cool, Kander! I wonder if a community event where the archetypes submit ideas for their cloaks would go through and then maybe each archetype ends up with a crate w/ 3 cloak options so players can pick the one that fits their style best? Idk like maybe cloaks to fit these styles: Hybrid Tank, Defensive Tank, Reckless Tank // Ability Scout, Auto Scout, Utility Scout // Ability Mage, Auto Mage, Utility Mage // Offensive Healer, Defensive Healer, Hybrid Healer Again, just a thought. A community event where players submit ideas for the styles could definitely be fun.
it sounds like it could actually be good, I hope it doesn't turn out to be super awful, as most archetype things tend to be. they tend to be very generic things like "some super fancy taunt for a tank".
What's with the push against class specific stuff? Lack of resources to balance the class specific buffs? Heck if it were up to me we would go back to more class specific items and on that note can we start a petition for new Epic Weapons!
I don't really care if generic or not, just as long as they aren't awful. and we clearly have different mind sets on what is good and what isn't, cause deaggro position items and damage procs are not good things
I'm glad they are at least on the table but am also concerned that Archetypal items can become bland because say, what's good for a Guardian is not necessary for a Zerker. (Though both Warrior Myth Cloaks are good atm even though they are old).
I miss the class specific stuff too. My memories a little fuzzy but I'm thinking of items for Bards like Marrows Song that increased in-combat run speed (can't remember which buff it applied to now) or the Twelve Tone Earstone that increased casting speed/CA range after using Misfortunes Kiss etc. Two expansion packs later I was still (rarely) using Marrows Song to help raid newbies get back to the podium quickly enough on the Haraakat the Seer fight. I guess the main issue isn't so much lack of resources to balance class specific buffs but that if you make a class specific item, everyone expects you to do the same for every single other class now. So that cool item idea probably gets forgotten about because it means thinking of 25 other unique effects or risking the wrath of an irate player base. It's a shame because when you start making things more generic (and by nature if you start going by archetype the effect is going to be more generic) the items loses some of that special appeal - at the same time tho I guess they HAVE to go by archetype now due to the way the quest reward crates work (and seems to be the system they'll be sticking with). Can't remember which thread I read it in but that's also the reason why smartloot won't work for gear these days.
Class specific items are bad for the reasons Errrorr provided. I don't care how much development and design time, there's always going to be something that can be improved on. The other reason to stay away from them, is how long did epic weapons stay viable when they were originally released in EQ2? Weapons were still itemized in RoK and TSO and yet, classes who could only use one weapon, generally couldn't afford to get a potentially better weapon because they couldn't afford to lose the effect on the weapon. You want there to always be something you can strive for to improve, Epic weapons, especially if it's a long and painful quest, or something like the myth cloak which wasn't a guaranteed drop until much later on, how long do you as a player want to be forced to keep using them or how quickly do you want to find that the item is now completely obsolete? Archetype is one way to deal with this, because then you don't need to tie it necessarily to an existing buff like many of the myth cloaks were. As for existing items the templar cloak making their stoneskin buff become group wide is significantly better then having a damage proc. How do you balance the benefit/utility each class specific item to it's class evenly? Right now if you wanted to make those items more evenly balanced, I don't think you could truly buff other classes up to that level, you'd probably have to be buffing the weaker items and considerably nerfing the existing ones.
There are some class specific items in game still. However these are infrequent and aren't overpowered like the myth cloaks were. Bard Wrist Priest Necks As long as the items are useful, but not class defining, they are good. Once they start being used for 4 expansions (see myth cloaks), it's gone too far.
Oh nice, I'd seen the bard wrist in-game but couldn't find a link (i was going to give that as an example too) - haven't seen the priest neck's before.. haven't raided since SF, wish I had the time, I'd love to see more items like this. But yeah, completely agree with you. TBH (like Seiffil said) i'm surprised the dev's made same "mistake" with myth cloaks, I thought that was a lesson already learned after myth weapons.
SO many generic garbage items in game right now with rare exception. PLEASE make the myth cloak buffs something special. I will say though that I am not optimistic after seeing the way they went with the new top end weapons. Weapons used to be those items every expansion that were at the pinnacle and had a cool proc to match which also seems to have been abandoned. I am apparently not as concerned with some of the other people in this thread about using items for a few expansions. Who cares is all I can say.. the item may have had a slightly lower stats but the proc more than made up for it in most cases.
Even those aren't balanced... the fury/warden buff is absolutely useless for a druid in a tank group, for instance. Even with t-shell up, the tank IS going to tank damage unless the tank blows a damage immunity just for the buff.
Even the RoK Mythicals while VERY useful for the classes involved it caused an itemization debacle that persisted through TSO until Epic Repercussions. Keep in min, ER was a story-means of getting us players to drop our Mythicals and still keep our lovely buffs everyone had come so accustomed to.
