Max HP Debuff for Rangers

Discussion in 'Scouts' started by Neiloch, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    So after much thought last night and this morning and discussion in a thread in the old forums I have come to the conclusion that it is a huge oversight rangers do not have a max HP debuff.

    This is not and can not be a 'assassins have it so we want it too.' this is because this type of debuff is actually quite common. Every DPS scout has a version of this except Rangers and there are other classes outside of those with one as well.

    I would compare rangers not having a max HP debuff to not having something as basic as a deaggro or a x2 debuff. Actually worse since a max HP debuff is useful in heroic content as well while the x2 buff is not. So not only do we have no utility (except for the new prestige abilities that everyone got a counterpart of) we don't even have a debuff that is nearly 'standard issue' for scouts.

    The only way I will stop wanting this is if someone can point out what rangers do that apparently none of the other DPS scouts can that has just as much universal appeal as a max HP debuff thus justifying why we don't one. I'm sure it will be a groundbreaking explanation if it's possible since the entire EQ2 community doesn't know about it or severely underestimates it's value what ever it may be.

    So I'm breaking in these new forums with this. This is it. This is going to be my new 'thing' to want for rangers. Either give us a max HP debuff to bring us up to par or something else with just as much universal appeal. I doubt you could come up with something with as much universal appeal without dipping into the debuff/buff classes abilities or coming up with a new mechanic entirely.
  2. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    Pretty much this. Assassins and Brigands are currently the goto scouts if you're bringing scout dps to raid, and Swashbucklers are going to be pretty well off too with the option to spec CoE on top of both their new prestige lines being great debuffs. Beastlords will be up with Swashbucklers as the 3rd scout just because of the raw dps they do, even if plagued with annoying pet mechanics. Rangers are kind of meh right now, they clearly need a small max hp debuff to at least be on par with BLs/Swashes until things can be worked out better next expansion.
    Estred and Neiloch like this.
  3. crazyeyes321 Active Member

    Giving rangers something that others already have wont make rangers any better off, as those classes still have utility that we would continue to lack. It would be better to argue for something new, like a debuff that makes group members always hit while active, or increases group/raid damage on mob by X% while active.
  4. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Not only is the max hp debuff something others have, its something every other DPS scout has EXCEPT rangers. We should have gotten one long ago. Giving rangers a max HP debuff that stacks with the others along with their DPS now being up to par would be reason enough to want to have a ranger around. Not only just 'in addition too' but they would start being suitable as a replacement or 'instead of' assassins and beastlords.

    Hit rate buff would only see gains as good as a max HP debuff if every mob in the game was a hard to hit brawler mob. The incoming damage increase is currently being used by swashies and necros in their new prestige lines. Something with as much universal appeal as a max HP debuff would be hard to match without taking something from more utility oriented classes or coming up with an entirely new mechanic.

    Coming up with a new mechanic would take time, they could give us a max HP debuff today.
  5. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Hp debuff will definitely bring the gap very close to assassins.
  6. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    It really wouldn't. You'd still have Assassin and Brigand as the #1 and 2 scout spots in raid, you'd just have Rangers actually being able to compete for the 3rd (and sometimes 4th) spot against Beastlords and Swashbucklers.
  7. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Better than not even in the running like we are now.

    And I can't even raid except for the odd pick up.
  8. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Wowser Buffratx, how the flyin f do you get 95kHP???! :)
  9. Buffrat Well-Known Member

    100573.

    Rangers can get higher.
  10. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    You sure do like your health adorns hehe.

    Yeah a HP debuff certainly wouldn't fix the gap but it would close it significantly and it seems pretty obvious we should get one. Given access to equally good players using the other scout DPS classes, a ranger is little more than a charity case at this point.

    I was actually thinking today an ability that lets rangers 'finish' or 'headshot' a mob who is at or below a low percentage of health might be neat. Then I realize this would basically just a ranger verdict. If it was more than 2% on a raid mob is would render verdict useless, and if it was less than 2% it would be useless when verdict is available.

    Just give rangers an HP debuff already.
  11. Twyxx Well-Known Member

    I'd really rather have something else, but hp debuff added to snipe is an amazingly easy fix to help bridge the gap. Xelgad did a solid job with our prestiges and even though he never braved a post on ranger threads he clearly listened to feedback. But that just made it so we didn't fall further behind. Relatively, we're not anymore valuable in CoE as we are now at the end of DoV.

    It seems that the prestige balancing took too long to get to class balance. Hopefully that will still be worked on in the coming weeks and not just forgotten once the xpac is released.
  12. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    I felt that way too Twyxx but after a while I realized its just silly we don't have a HP debuff. What should be happening is we get a max HP debuff in addition to a more 'ranger' thing to realistically close the gap. Otherwise the 'something else' would have to be an ability that is better than a HP debuff.
  13. Davngr Well-Known Member

    rangers should stop "trying to be like mike" on everything. every ranger always brings up what assassins have instead of what would be better for their class and in their efforts usually gets assassin or another class nerfed instead of fixing their own class.

    instead of an hp debuff why don't rangers ask for a potency debuff? that would be huge for aoe's and stuff of that nature. maybe a raw percentage chance to miss (negative accuracy)? something that would not trample other classes need to be in raid and at the same time won't nerf any other classes either.
    also.. i'm pretty sure that there is a threshold on hp debuffs that devs don't want to get to to avoid the early SF fiasco so i'm pretty sure some of these buffs will start hitting soft caps at some point.

    edit.

    add in a raidwide buff for scout ability reuse and mage double cast and there will be a ranger in every single raid ever.. lol
  14. Xeos Well-Known Member

    Yes until these stats are capped, like when Focus Aim used to be worthwhile to a group, or other stats that are easily capped.

    It needs to be unique and not really available to other classes. I still vote for AE Multiattack, it would be the ONLY class in the game with it.. for now. It is only a matter of time before AE Multiattack and AE Flurry are in the game.
  15. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Thanks for (not) reading and replying.

    You mean a potency debuff like rogues have?

    lol. I've been playing this game as a ranger for over 5 years and not once have I heard a someone want a ranger in their raid/group for nature's focus.

    Even if we gave a group buff for AE multiattack it still wouldn't be as valuable as a max HP debuff.
  16. Xeos Well-Known Member

  17. Davngr Well-Known Member

    I did read the thread and even tho you say that this isn't about taking anything away from assassin, assassin did loose their HP debuff thanks to the "cool kids" not liking what tree it feel in to.

    yes, potency debuff is given to rogue but the point is that it's an offensive debuff and thus the opposite of the assassin defensive debuff so it gives both preds a function in raid not a replacement.
  18. Davngr Well-Known Member

    reuse can be spec'd out of and double cast can always overflow into multi cast at some point in the future. either way the assassin will have the spot for the hp debuff and the ranger will have the spot for the reuse and double cast not replace but complement each other.
  19. Xeos Well-Known Member

    I just don't understand why a Ranger would buff Double Cast. It just doesn't fit and it does not directly help the Ranger themselves. The only classes that give out selfless buffs are utility classes.

    It would have to be Reuse and Ability Double Cast. Besides Ability Double Cast would be far better and more fitting, plus I do not know of any class that gives this buff, except for a Brigands Double Up which is self only.
  20. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Not sure who the 'cool kids' are but the grievance people had was that it was WAY too much in what is already seen as too much HP debuff. As a matter of fact you should be in support of such an action since you are so concerned with there being 'too much' max HP debuffing if rangers got one.

    FYI in case you didn't know classes that get max HP debuffs:
    Assassins
    Beastlords
    Brawlers
    Shamans
    Necromancer
    Rogues
    Shadowknight

    That's an older list so might even have more by now.

    So stop acting like its an 'assassin' thing because it just isn't.

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