Max HP Debuff for Rangers

Discussion in 'Scouts' started by Neiloch, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. crazyeyes321 Active Member

    Ability that for a short time makes raid attacks bypass all mob avoidance/stoneskins 100%. Ensuring the damage keeps coming.
  2. Twyxx Well-Known Member

    I don't see anyone really adjusting for that unless you boost it. It's too insignificant. You're basically using that so they can melee when out on a non-red ae. You'd have to /raidsay it and have everyone set up triggers and then they'd have to care too. Not anything people would see as valuable. It would need to be at least 25-30m, only group-wide, 8-10s duration and on a 90s recast.
  3. ZUES Well-Known Member

    It's going to have to be a pretty good utility to be desired on raids again. If I could design a few options...
    1. Group area of effect, passive, stun/stifle prevent. Make it expensive in the AA tree. Healers would beg for rangers!
    2. Castable, raidwide area of effect, stackable flurry proc. Stacks 10 times 4% per incriment, melee only. 15 minute recast.
    3. Passive raidwide melee range buff (like coercers gets) that increases melee attack range by 100%.
    4. Summon Arrows would summon the best arrows in the game. More AA's into it allow you to summon temporary, zone only, arrows to a raid or group friend. Give really cool options to the arrows like (prevents NPC switching targets for 1 second, etc.).
  4. Twyxx Well-Known Member

    Perceived value is important along with actual value. ACT isn't going to give you credit for how many extra hits land so raid won't be able to see the worth. And I don't think you can do stoneskins cause many scripts are based on mob not taking dmg at some point and they use stoneskins to do that.
  5. Twyxx Well-Known Member

    1. Doesn't really make sense a ranger would do that. Seems like a magic shield or something.
    2. Depends on duration and stacks based on what?
    3. If you're talking about until cancelled, permanent 100% range extension is game-breaking.
    4. Best arrows in game is subjective and changes. I like the idea, just dunno how practical. Would be value equivalent of conj shards I guess.
  6. ZUES Well-Known Member

  7. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Rangers summoning awesome temp arrows would be 'nice' at best. Obviously we care the most about arrows and everyone else cares much, much less. So scouts would be slightly appeased and maybe a fighter or two. Not exactly awesome. "OMG get a ranger so when we rarely range auto attack it will be slightly better than usual!"

    ANYTHING that requires shifting around in our current AA specs to sacrifice DPS for utility DOES NOT fix any utility/DPS ratio problems. Sacrificing DPS for utility solves nothing and suggests a fundamental shift in what rangers do. We need 'in addition to' not 'instead of'

    Flurry buffs would be a short term boost at best. people are approaching or reaching the flurry cap as it is. Jump to one year from now we got a nice big chunk of utility no one cares about.

    Some sort of 'truestrike' stuff would fit the ranger class style but unfortunately I don't see as it being that useful. People aren't exactly killing mobs while having low hit rates as it is.
  8. Xeos Well-Known Member

    Hmm okay what about something of the opposite spectrum a defensive ability?

    My idea, an ability call it "Atropic Shot" for now. An attack made by the ranger that puts a debuff on the mob, for every debuff that debuffs combat skills, or accuracy, strikethrough etc made by the group or raid it will reduce Accuracy and Strikethrough on the mob.by 4% per application (in a x4 raid that is 96%) lasts for 10s and 2 minute base reuse.
  9. ZUES Well-Known Member

    Debuff shmebuff. We dont want no stinkin' debuff! Utility! Something that will be valuable to raids and tip the balance of ranger desireability. Period.
  10. ZUES Well-Known Member

    A temporary stack of arrows specific to our needs at the time. Incorperate a new ranger specific AA tree (or summon a merchant type a thing) just for arrow buffs/procs (arrow reforger if you will). Make them AE from the mob itself (where the arrow lands). There, problem solved.
  11. Xeos Well-Known Member

    Lol I could only picture this proccing off of each mob you AE would be like a perpetual barrage... hey that is a good name for it.
  12. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Debuffs ARE utility. One of the top, if not THE top, reasons assassins and rogues are desired is for, TA-DA, their debuffs.
  13. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Rangers are supposed to be at one with the forest. Stealth, tracking, spotting opportunities and weaknesses. An assassin with a bow and a tree to hug.

    It therefore baffles me why we don't have similar utility to an assassin, who is basically our evil side who cares less about nature.

    We should have a max hp debuff and a hate transfer just like assassins. Heck, make them slightly less powerful than assassins because we can do more damage from range. Although as it's been said many times our ranged benefit is considered far greater than what it actually is.
  14. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    I don't want a straight up hate transfer like assassins, that would be copying. Plus its just not that big of a deal.

    I would like 'Trick Shot' to matter. The hate aspect of trick shot is so feeble it means nothing. If it ends up applying to someone that isn't a tank, no one cares. I even tried to use it to 'troll' in PUGs just to see if it would matter, give hate gain to a mage or something, no change. It needs to IMMEDIATELY apply to what ever player the mob is targeting and the hate aspect of it needs to be replaced with something more significant like a positional. Positional up if fighter, down if not. Otherwise just ditch the hate part outright, increase the damage and/or lower the reuse.
  15. Regolas Well-Known Member

    I honestly don't see how having a hate transfer, no matter how trivial it may be to raid geared rangers always fighting with raid geared tanks, is bad or copying assassins. A lot of dps classes have something similar.

    I just want the tools that other classes that I'm compared against have. Just like you do. It would be useful in the PUGs with the undergeared tank.

    Having it in trick shot would work though. Have it proc a buff that lasts for a minute or so and transfers hate from group to tank. It wouldn't be always on like assassins unless you keep using the CA.
  16. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    I know for fact the devs sit on a firm 'No' when it comes to giving rangers a hate transfer that is more or less a copy of assassin's, so it would be a waste of time arguing for one instead of something more likely to get implemented.

    Hawk Attack takes the place of a hate transfer. I find it does work to an extent but you have to maintain it and make sure its up BEFORE problems start. It's not going to save you if the DPS severely out performs the tank, hate transfer wouldn't work very well in these scenarios either btw.

    Hawk Attack works better than Trick Shot in the same sense anything is more than nothing. I don't think it would be out of line if Trick Shot applied a hate transfer instead of a hate gain buff. It could even be quite high since reuse would be more than duration and it would have to be maintained opposed to hate xfer buffs which are more of a 'set it and forget it' system.
  17. Loldawg Member

    +1 for giving rangers a small HP debuff.

    Would love to see them get something else that would benefit the group. Nothing worse than getting stuck in a group w/ a ranger.

    +1 to the group potency proc idea
    +1 to increasing group's range - or maybe the ability to increase one person in the group's range
  18. Regolas Well-Known Member

    Thanks!
  19. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    that did make me chuckle. It's stated as if not only is a ranger lacking, but just being in a group with one some how creates a negative force over the group. As if an empty slot would be preferable to having a ranger fill it lol.
  20. Twinbladed Well-Known Member

    Add something logically unique, and rangers will always be wanted in raid

    As said before something that doesn't cap out, and is not used by any other class. What comes to mind? Well that would depend on what group you're trying to sit in. So then the idea has to favor more than one type of class, which involve's a tool all classes use, but no other class provides in a large scale, one more problem, it has to be very useful. I would almost say allow a system overcap buff to work. If they allowed rangers to use something for example say haste as a proc, then threw it in a group wide melee group and allowed it to increase weapons speed regardless of the cap for a short duration, I am positive rangers would be in group. Then again it has to be logical.