Leather fighter drops in SF raids...

Most guilds only have one brawler in their raid-force. So even if the drops are rare it only needs to drop once & then its going to alts or mute.

Lizzoraus@Blackburrow wrote:

And most brawlers get called in to raid for 2 mobs a week.. The sages at the beginning of the week, and the sages at the end of the week. Almost everything that dropped for us lastnight(including pants) was leather...

Probably making up for the last Seven Tiers.

We make our brawler sell all brawler loot that he doesn't want/need as punishment for SOE's inability to balance the amount of brawler loot that drops. He is our biggest money maker, even though his items sell for far less than any other items we sell.

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

We're muting chain healer helms and forearms

We get a lot of cloth gear and not much else, some leather drops would really be great. I guess the upside is I will get to have my necromancer decked in no time...

Zabjade wrote:

Brawlers are almost always the first to get geared out...

Smart loot would be nice, we also get way too many leather armor drops (only roll with 1 brawler and 2 druids) and not nearly enough cloth drops. Part of it is just bad luck but would still like to see smart loot on this stuff.

yeah, we've had ridiculous amounts of brawler gear drop in our raids. My alt Monk will be rocking some fabled gear once I quit slacking and get her to 90. In RoK and TSO zones, when she was my main, I was lucky to get a brawler pc every few weeks.

We have had this so far as of the end of tonight Cloth:24% Leather:17.7% Chain:26.5% Plate:31.7%

Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:

So what do your final numbers look like? I didn't keep a log but I know we got far more plate and mage drops this month than leather. Curious to see what you ended up with.

Here's what we saw for the last two months on my raids (Lair, Labs, & Palace -- two separate raid forces):
April Results: 81 total armor drops -- 18 plate (8 healer, 10 tank), 25 chain (15 dps, 10 healer), 19 leather (11 healer, 8 brawler), 19 cloth (14 mage, 5 summoner-specific).
For percentages, that tallies up to: Plate: 22.2% (9.9% healer, 12.4% tank) -- Chain: 30.9% (18.5% dps, 12.3% healer) -- Leather: 23.5% (13.6% healer, 9.9% brawler) -- Cloth: 23.5% (17.3% mage, 6.2% summoner).
Transmuted: Two pieces of tank plate (No gear goes to alts). This means that 2.5% of our drops this month were transmuted.
Overview: For April, the highest percentage of armor types dropped were chain, with chain dps pieces the majority of class drops... the lowest percentage of armor types dropped were plate, while summoner-specific pieces were the least common class drop.
May Results: 164 total armor drops -- 37 plate (9 healer, 28 tank), 48 chain (32 dps, 16 healer), 39 leather (19 healer, 20 brawler), 40 cloth (31 mage, 9 summoner-specific).
For percentages, that tallies up to: Plate: 22.6% (24.3% healer, 75.7% tank) -- Chain: 29.3% (66.7% dps, 33.3% healer) -- Leather: 23.8% (48.7% healer, 51.3% brawler) -- Cloth: 24.4% (77.5% mage, 22.5% summoner).
Transmuted: 42 pieces -- 8 leather dps, 5 leather heal, 7 plate dps, 3 plate heal, 5 cloth dps, 11 chain dps, 3 chain healer. This means that 25.6% of our drops this month were transmuted. (Note: we mainly run Lair for manas at this point, which will weight this percentage somewhat unfairly)
Overview: For May, the highest percentage of armor types dropped were chain, with chain dps pieces the majority of class drops... the lowest percentage of armor types dropped were plate, while summoner-specific pieces were the least common class drop.
Two Month Tally: 245 drops -- 44 transmuted (17.96%)
By Armor Types -- Chain: 73 (29.8%) -- Cloth: 59 (24.1%) -- Leather: 58 (23.7%) -- Plate: 55 (22.4%)
By Class Types -- Chain DPS: 47 (19.2%) -- Cloth DPS: 45 (18.4%) -- Plate Tank: 38 (15.5%) -- Leather Healer: 30 (12.2%) -- Leather Brawler: 28 (11.4%) -- Chain Healer: 26 (10.6%) -- Plate Healer: 17 (6.9%) -- Cloth Summoners: 14 (5.7%)

I missed a few days worth on the tail end since I was out of town and stuff of that nature but here is the end.


I still feel 18% is fairly high considering most raids have maybe 4 at the most people wearing leather, which in turn should be around 16% at the absolute highest.

Of that leather, Even with leather wearing recruits, roughly 90% was alted/transmuted...

Keep in mind that your 18% is a consolidation of two classes (and three armor sets) for you... to be fair, it should be presented as 10% brawler and 8% healer.
For brawlers, your numbers match mine, with your 10% drop rate compared to 11% for us (but I didn't keep track of defensive vs offensive sets ). That to me sounds reasonable, especially since brawlers have two sets to attain (my Monk has done well on offensive gear, but I still only have 1 piece from the defensive set ).
We differed a bit on healer leather -- 12% vs 8%... not sure if that could be due to the sample size differences or if it's just the RNG kickin in. Either way, it's still within the same range each of us has for the chain healers (11% for us, 6% for you), so it could be attributed to a margin of error until larger sample sizes are made.
Looking at both of our numbers, I'm STILL not seeing this massive overwhelming imbalance of brawler drops everyone is complaining about. I do find it amusing that folks will go "Oh, MORE brawler loot" when leather drops, but no one says anything when scout chain drops... even tho we mute all the chain but two or three slots, while the brawlers are still rolling for all the leather slots except boots and helms.
One thing I feel could help in general would be a wider range of drops on the initial mobs in the SF zones. For a lot of us, after a month or two of runs, the first few names in all the SF zones are just transmute targets that slow us down enroute to the real targets. Add some new armor with different effects, mix it up a little -- give folks a reason to want to hit targets like Lair beyond just a 15 minute cash/transmute run. Fighters have two sets of armor? Fine, give the other classes some alternate armor pieces with more specialized effects. Even with the same drop rate percentages, it would liven things up and maintain interest.
And having two or more identical armor drops on some mobs just doesn't help at all... would it really be that difficult to code in a check for the RNG: "if armor1=x, then pick something else for armor2"?

Iskandar wrote:

that's because you still think 10% is a fair representation of brawlers in the raid force, which is laughable.

Let's put it this way:
My guild has ONE brawler raider. There is ONE other person who has a brawler main.
Raid brawler had every armor slot filled with new raid gear in about 2 weeks tops. Other brawler was given full set also, within a week or two. A couple of us have brawler alts. My monk just hit 90 the other day and he has every piece but forearm, with 2 bps and 2 hands (one each offense and defense gear). He wasn't the first brawler alt to twink out either, but about third. Yeah, brawler loot is overcommon for the number of them in raid forces.
Compare that to druids. Lot of healer leather dropping but we got 3-4 druids in raid every time, and a couple extra cycling in as needed. Plus many of us have druid alts. I think i got a forearm for my warden the other day. First piece that was "alted" to me.
So even if we get only 10% brawler leather, 10% not-needed gear is wasted when we got other types to gear up.

Leeroy@Blackburrow wrote:

Exactly this. We have 1 raiding brawler, and 2 alts totally decked out mainly in T3 Stuff, While there are still mains, Like myself, that haven't gotten our pieces. Shaman helm for us has dropped 0-1 time, I don't think it has, but I could have missed it, which really frustrating in terms of progressing in some cases

NaeenSpeedbringer wrote:

"Laughable" is an unreasonable insistence that there be only ONE raid template for ALL raids to follow, no matter what.
Likewise, your own argument can be said for plate as well. 22.4% of our drops were plate. We have two plate tanks and one plate healer in each raid, meaning six people are getting 23% of the armor dropping for 48 raiders -- your numbers are even higher, 32% of your drops were plate. Is 32% of your raid (8 out of 24 people) wearing plate? Heck, even if ya look at plate tank only, it's 15% of our drops and 23% of yours. But no one here seems to be advocating cutting plate drops to 5%. How odd... they just focus on leather. Similarly, summoners get a 6% drop rate in both of our numbers... we have two in one raid and one in the other. On the other hand, we have two leather fighters in both raids. But a 10% drop rate for brawlers is "laughable" for two sets of leather armor (a 5% chance for each set) vs a 6% rate for summoners for one set of cloth.... riiiiiiight.
Oh, but I forgot, we're not supposed to raid like that since it doesn't match YOUR setup. /shrug That's tough. A real shame.

Are we still having this stupid freaking conversation?
May Armour Drops
Chain DPS 23
Cloth DPS 20 (yes I didn't seperate the 2 sets who cares)
Plate Tank 7
Plate DPS 11
Plate Healer 10
Tank Leather 9
DPS Leather 4
Healer Leather 7
Healer Chain 6
Looks fine to me except for healer chain being a bit low.
Certain Mobs screw with the numbers.
Illisiad's barrier only has 2 Armour Drops I have seen Plate DPS Helm and Leather Tank Chest. So he inflates both numbers because he doesn't have a chance for any other armour. He alone pretty much doubled the Tank leather number with 3 chest pieces
Kendis Pamare(easy mode) is slightly better as he drops Cloth DPS Robe, Plate DPS boots, Leather DPS Pants, Leather Tank Shoulders and Plate Tank Shoulders.
Other than that the Azara the Seer really needs to drop 2 pairs of pants, i don't see why she is the only raid mob in the entire expansion who doesn't drop atleast 2 items.

The whole freakin point of random loot drops is too slow your progression down, coming here to complain about it, just prooves to the Devs they are doing it correctly. Why do you think there hasn't been a single post in any of the threads about it.
There is nothing wrong with the drop rates apart from maybe Healer Chain on the mobs that ACTUALLY have the whole spectrum of armour drops.
If you remove Barrier/Kendis from the equation your 10% which is "too high" becomes less.
10% of your drops are going to waste, wow your lucky.
My guild is at 50-90% "wastage" on the mobs we farm through to get to progression mobs.
If by wastage you mean going to alts/selling in channels, which in my guild earns money for the guild expenses/monthly plat split.
So I ask again once more, how does you wah wah wah my armour didn't drop but armour nobody in the raid needed except maybe for an alt dropped. Differ from the previous 27 months of wah wah wah my pattern didn't drop but the pattern nobody in the raid needed except maybe for any alt dropped...
RANDOM LOOT IS RANDOM! Your going to get a certain percentage of "waste" otherwise it wouldn't be random but smart loot. If 10% is all your getting you are in no position to -ing complain.

Iskandar wrote:

i didn't post our numbers, but keep projecting... it is humorous. if you go back to the first couple pages of this thread, you will see that i said leather and fight AND plate fighter drops are too high because there are two sets for each when no other archtype his this issue (and of course there are the poor bards with no dedicated set). all you have done is prove my point even further, so thank you. plate fighters and leather fighters should have just one set. it would go a long way to balancing out the drops. stop trying to combine leather tank gear with leather healer gear and plate tank gear with plate healer gear. they aren't directed at the same groups of raiders... well maybe they are for a guild raiding multiple brawlers.