pretty sure i raided as high content as the wardens in question and outperformed them every night, i'm pretty sure i can say koko is better. Also raiding this expansion is so stupid, you just spam healstorm for like 10 minutes while a warlock breaks the game with its dps. Grats.
I did, not anymore! Its sad how someones work/effort to help others can turn into a "im better then you" conversation.
I don't get why people are saying rebirth is not worth the 24 points, i switched to it over a year ago and it's the best thing i did. As a raiding warden i use it all the time, as i mostly solo heal i can get up in 1 sec with no rez sickness, with full health and power instead of waiting for a dirge rez while my group is dieing, or get up the whole raid in like 5 sec after a wipe instead of waiting for someone to revive and run back, you save a lot of time during a raid night specially when you working on a new mob and you forget the blue melee aoe you get with the line and the 12.5 % in combat runspeed so where is that not useful? I take that over the infusion line any time
Thank you for contributing a damage/heal summary. I'll explain my thought process as I inspect your summary, keep in mind I have no prior knowledge of this encounter. My initial observation is that the EncDPS is far less than I had expected for a raid scenario. This lead to an inspection of hit rates, which were sufficiently high on auto attacks/combat arts/procs, so I considered it safe to conclude it was not debuff related. I then noticed critical chance, which is... inconsistent. Auto attacks (and healing) have a 100% critical rate, but combat arts are much lower. From this I concluded that there is a debuff (or buff) related to critical chance or "stoneskin" type mitigation during the encounter. I then noticed that infusion has the lowest critical rate, followed by AE abilities and procs (single target are 100%). This suggests that this observation is limited to parts of the encounter. I then noticed that the minimum damage hit is frequently zero, therefore it is the "stoneskin" type. My second observation is that HwtP is "lower than expected" which indicates that it was either "saved" for some reason (inconsistent encounter damage or CC break), possibly the adds from earlier. This is odd though as divine guidance is far superior for mitigation multiple-hit-type-damage than HwtP, and natural boon/spirit of druidism have natural synergism with multiple targets. At this point I'm curious to whether the stoneskin is ability-only or if AE auto % is zero. My third observation is that protective instinct and faith of the fallen are both "missing". PI wasn't neglected because of "ward ignoring damage" (which was expected because of the templar) as spirit of druidism is registering damage, so there must be another reason. However FotF wasn't registered either, so it wasn't shown "preference" over PI. I noticed that "single target healing" is negligible, with photosynthesis, spores, tranquility, genesis, sylvan touch, and nature's embrace composing 3% EncHPS collectively. Photosynthesis "beating" spores is very odd, as it suggests it was cast on a non-fighter. Alternatively, the script could have required multiple fighters and photosynthesis was maintained on both... but even in that scenario I would expect more than 28 triggers. These observations suggest that most healing is group based. I can't determine the total number of casts of ST heals from this log, but from the number of infusion procs, relatively low damage output, and the impression I receive from your posts I assume it is a lot. There is a good chance that the group would be "safer" with an increased proc rate on spirit of druidism & brainstorm, especially with a protective instinct safety net. Additionally decreased CA frequency would of course diminish the healing done by HwtP, as observed earlier. I further suspect unyielding retribution was "dropped" based on the # of CAs cast and the duration of the encounter, which would cause the healing potential of group heals to diminish. tl;dr: I expect you prioritize preemptive HoTs rather than alternative tools (e.g. spirit of druidism, protective instinct) and do not exert situational awareness with respect to your abilities and the encounter. The encounter provided is predominantly group HPS, and I'm surprised by the lack of emphasis on protective instinct/spirit of druidism. That said congratulations on the flawless, this type of analysis obviously isn't required. @Hamdaddy I agree that you're amazing, and I'll let you heal me anytime. <3
If you're solo healing, I can see it. I rarely solo heal because I'm usually in a tank group where I can make full use of my abilities, particularly sandstorm. In my experience, I am usually one of the last in my group to die, not the first, so popping back up isn't helpful. And, except on wipes, I just don't die often enough to make spending 24 pts useful. If there weren't places to put the points that are always useful, I might see using it to make recovering faster... but spending 24 pts so I can get up right away rather then having the clerics or a necro (who are already specced for it) do it just isn't worth 24pts to me or my raid.
Its just one mob and when adds are made to spawn, the main mob stoneskins/invul until the two adds are dead. This happens repeatedly during the fight. Its heal intensive because the AE being casted grows in power over the course of the fight on a fixed curve. In regards to Rebirth what I can tell you definitively is our healers are usually 3rd or 4th to die on raids, which means they are usually the last people standing with more than 3/4 of the raid dead, we usually just call a wipe if half the raid is dead to speed things along. If for what ever reason druids started dying first or second much more often the value of Rebirth on our raids would go up intensely. Until then its little more than a convenience or means to end when setting up AA specs. At least for us.
I do not cast cyclone frequently, in fact there are days where I don't cast it at all! Excluding Plane of War and related Avatars, using cyclone is never plan A. However, we are all in agreement that cyclone is a very powerful skill - likely the strongest temp in the game post Swindle Fate nerf. A warden not spec'ing cyclone would be considered madness, and I have a similar viewpoint regarding rebirth. With regards to rebirth vs. infusion, I experience drastically lower returns than Anaiul or Mermut based on skill preference. I will use Irdul as an example as it provides similar mechanics to Anaiul's encounter, incrementing AE damage vs. time and adds spawn that must be killed to progress. The encounter is predominantly group heal focused, and my abilities cast directly reflect that. Preference was given to maintaining unyielding retribution/spirit of druidism/brainstorm and charging protective instinct for proc irregularities (early)//AE rotations (late). This method provides not only increased group HPS, but increased damage output which is invaluable in this encounter. I enjoy these scripts, a minority opinion I'm sure, because they allow for multiple solutions. I think my strategy is superior, but it is interesting to see alternative viewpoints. Coincidentally, it casts less traditional beneficial spells which makes infusion less desirable. Additionally, I solo heal not only Irdul, but most encounters (including those with fighters). Both make rebirth significantly more attractive. Although it frequently un-used, it is a powerful safety net. Other players have suggested alternatives, e.g. dirge, 2nd healer, but I consider rebirth to be superior to these options.
The biggest difference between rebirth and cyclone.... 24/32 pts vs 2 pts. If I could take rebirth for 2 pts, I would. On a side note, I always have druidism and brainstorm up since I'm always using my CAs and auto-attack. I also keep UR up on most fights. I prefer to supliment with the DR and mit increase from healstorm as well, though, since it is even more damage my group isn't taking plus it keeps healing ticks on my group at all times for any small spikes that might get through. This works to keep my group green most of the time. I solo heal in groups all the time, and since you've said you don't raid on your warden this expac, I'm assuming that's what you're talking about too.. unless it's last expac stuff.
I've noticed that all of the wardens "for" infusion do not use PI, and all of the wardens "against" it do. "Maintaining" HoTs is significantly inferior to holding a charged PI with regards to "safety" vs. "time investment". By cycling healstorm you are 'betting' that something extraordinary occurs (i.e. group member taking aggro, inconsistent heal proc, uneven distributed damage, etc.), and this is usually a poor investment. Things are fine, HoT ticks fade, and time was wasted resulting in less ward procs & damage. Protective Instinct offers a superior return on time investment. It cancels instantly, has a longer duration, and provides larger burst healing. So we see wardens with PI insisting infusion is terrible, as PI effectively 'replaces' healstorm and infusion never triggers. We also see wardens without PI insisting it is great, as there is no substitution and infusion triggers often.
That's my thinking on it ... a great tool to save time while learning ... where as infusion is something that would get you in trouble while learning. But Ive got to be honest , Ive never speced rebirth , and I am a devout user of infusion. But the theory is sound for why to pick rebirth over infusion. And KoKo brings up an interesting point with PI. That's awesome it is a clean rez with getting up in 1 sec. Which brings up a question , and why I might consider specing both infusion and rebirth. Would rebirth allow you to continue with your merc , if you drop first? Which would bring up some new strategies for pulling hard bosses when solo with merc or small odd groups.
@Anaiul said "I can get near 30 procs in 58 seconds during a burn fight." Are you counting a group heal proc as 6 procs ? I'm just flabbergasted with that number meaning the beneficial spells you were able to cast in 58 seconds.
Ya never mind the question ... adding it up its definitely possible to cast near 30 beneficials in 58 sec.
Thanks ... now to figure out where best to spend the points with that set up. I might just completely scrap the agi and stam line.
I'm somewhat disappointed I have to make this post. Koko's Warden Heal Spell FAQ Q: When is it important to cast a heal spell? A: When the spell will influence character survival. Q: When shouldn't I cast heal over time spells such as healstorm or photosynthesis? A: If they will be at full health when the heal is applied or incoming damage exceeds their max hp. Q: Shouldn't I try to mitigate the damage preemptively by casting spells in advance? A: Yes, just not healstorm or photosynthesis. Q: Why not? A: Because they are poor skills for preemptively mitigating damage. Q: Are you saying I shouldn't cast healstorm before AEs!? A: Yes, although timing it immediately after the AE hits is okay. Q: What am I supposed to do before an AE then? Clerics & shaman cast their archtype heal spell and it works! A: You are not a cleric or a shaman nor is healstorm a ward or reactive. Q: Why does that matter? A: As a general rule, the base value of one HoT "tick" is equivalent to a single reactive "trigger". Another general rule, the base value of a HoT "tick" is equivalent to one sixth of a group ward. Q: What did you just say to me? A: Wards/reactives are 50% more effective than HoTs at mitigating AE damage, assuming 6 targets and one tick. They also heal "instantly" and last significantly longer. Q: So what if I want to heal instantly or for more? A: Time the group heal cast to go off immediately after the damage source. Q: You implied there were other spells I could use preemptively, what were those? A: Protective Instinct, Spirit of Druidism, Tortoise Shell, Infuriating Thorns, Cyclone, or death prevents. Q: Don't people die all the time to random stuff (i.e. aggro, frontal riposts, etc.) if you're no maintaining HoTs!? A: No. Q: Why not!? A: Protective instinct is a powerful skill. Q: How powerful? A: Using my character as an example: PI will ward 3x as much as a healstorm tick. Obviously this is gear specific (PI scales with max health, healstorm scales with CB, P, and ability modifier) but should provide a ballpark value. Additionally using PI over healstorm increases spirit of druidism proc rate for additional protection. Q: So... you recommend to maintaining PI and reacting real-time to incoming damage? A: Usually, but winds of growth & rage of the wild have faster cast times than the average HoT delay (0.75 s) and provide an additional safeguard when necessary. I don't really understand the infatuation with maintaining HoTs. Q: Wait, you're against maintaining HoTs as a preemptive measure? Why? A: Suppose, hypothetical mob A chunk'd player B. HoTs will only register if they tick before they player is healed to full, and they are only useful if that player would take damage before they are healed. With quick acting tools such as Winds of Growth and Rage of the Wild, and with powerful preemptive measures such as PI and HwtP, this simply does not occur. Q: Is this why you dislike infusion? A: Yes.
Why disappointed ? That was a great Q&A ... and great addition to your guide. By the way ... thank you for taking the time to be pre-emptive in helping other wardens. I wouldn't look at the infusion / rebirth discussion as a negative ... but a positive at making your guide better.
