Item Drop Rates

Discussion in 'Items and Equipment' started by Neiloch, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Reading the post Kander made here made me think I have a bit of a window of opportunity to bring up item drop rates while comparing it to a system that is in house at SoE.

    The problem: Right now items drop in a very 'streaky' fashion. Items that have the same weight as others are seen MUCH less than others and the perception of this drop rate varies from guild to guild. Guilds have seen X item dozens of times while seeing Y item only a couple (if at all) when they supposedly have the same 'chance' to drop. Now while the drop rate may be correct on a global scale this is simply not good enough when looking at individual servers.

    This is the part that Kander posted that I am talking about:
    Notice how an avatar that has spawned on a server recently gets a much lower chance of spawning afterwards for a set time while other avatars who have not popped on a server for a long time get a much higher chance of spawning.

    Now if we can play some word replacement with what I just said we need to change it to the following for items:

    Notice how an ITEM that has DROPPED on a server recently gets a much lower chance of DROPPING afterwards for a set time while other ITEMS who have not DROPPED on a server for a long time get a much higher chance of DROPPING.

    There needs to be specific rules applied to items dropping to make sure items that are weighted the same drop in equal quantities on a per server basis, not global. If this was in place the only way items could being to drop in a 'streaky' fashion again is if dozens of groups/guilds on a server were just relentlessly killing the same encounter, and it still wouldn't be as bad as a global scale.

    Speaking of contested, the way contested works combined with an item drop system I propose would make sure they never drop items in streaks.
  2. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    I like the idea...especially considering if my raid sees one more damm scout shield again going to throw it at the devs.
    Arielle Nightshade likes this.
  3. Silzin Active Member

    i like the idea here, and if it could be made to work on a Per-Guild bases... i am not sure if it would be good on a per-guild bases but it may be even better.
  4. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    I thought about that as well but I'm not sure how much more work that would entail. I imagine it would work similar to guild achievements. If 2/3's or more of a raid is made up of RaidGuild1 it would use their drop history to determine what's in the chests.

    On a server basis it would be much harder for players to 'manipulate' drops but I can imagine scenarios on a per guild basis while not easy or likely to happen where players could manipulate drop chances. If not based on a guild but players in one guild it seems like it would have to cross check a lot of extra character data just to determine whats in a chest.

    Ignoring the possible difficulty of implementing those yes I would agree a per guild or even some way to be per player and average it out between participating players would be better. But this system on a per server basis would solve a huge majority of the problem.
  5. Silzin Active Member

    some time ago, i through out an idea to be able to just Re-Roll Any Chest 1s. just 1s per chest re-roll... it would also solve a lot of the problems, but this system you are talking about would also fix the problems. i am not sure which would be better or more fare or easier.
  6. Chronus Active Member

    A re-roll would only double the chance at certain items and wouldn't help, i.e, so Pirate Kings bows. 2 scout bows instead of 1 in 5 months wouldn't feel all that much better.

    Although introducing that system would help I don't really have faith in the weightings, 2 particular avatars still have not spawned on Splitpaw since the update went live.
  7. Snapshot Active Member

    I approve anything that gets me closer to a hullpiercer :(
  8. Wookin New Member

  9. Ebofu Active Member

    bump for success
  10. Kalderon Well-Known Member

    Well, if they put in a check of what when avatar did spawn, why not put in a "how often did certain loot had droped and make it change" ^^
  11. Plinc Active Member

    it could only average out to 6 in 7 if there was a chance for more than 6 to spawn with the same likelyhood of spawning less than 6. as it is, it will average out below 6.
    and you really want THEM to mess with weightings in the loot system? i dare you...
  12. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Someone doesn't know what 'rounding up' is apparently.

    You wouldn't say something like 5.8 - 5.9 is just 5 or 'about 5' when dealing with averages, you would just say 6 or around 6. It will average out to 5.5 - 5.6 or more.

    Real productive attitude btw. 'I'm so cynical I don't want them to try and fix it because they will just break it.' Why try anything, it might go wrong. lol.
  13. Twyxx Well-Known Member

    Hopefully something goes in with the expac to curb the rng streaking. Can't be too powerful as you still want the content to last a reasonable time, but waiting 32 kills for Hullpiercer or seeing an avatar helm or earring once every four months is too frustrating.
    Neiloch likes this.
  14. Silzin Active Member

    i think 1 approach they should take with this is reduce the number of items on the mobs drop tables should reduce the streakiness. but if they have items that are by design rare raid drops then they will always be streaky. also unless they reduce the number of weapons that drop it will not work for the Primary, Secondary or Ranged.

    -Brawlers need some non Defensive Weapons, these weapons can be shared with the scout 4.0's (i think) or maybe if plate tanks use any 4.0's? or change brawlers to use the Plate 6.0's?
    -Brawlers need some Defensive weapons that plate tanks can not also use. since this is the equal of the plate shield.
    -plate tanks need their 1h weapons, these may be able to be shared with scouts 6.0's .... i think the stats are about the same.
    -plate shields. this can not be shared with brawlers or scouts/healers
    -2h tank weapons. can this be combined with the Healer/Mage 2h... not sure... no tank should use it after all.
    -Healer/Mage 1h, this may also be shared with Healers and Mage? is there any reason not 2 other than procs?
    -Healer/Mage 2h Same for the 1h.
    -Healer/Scout Shield, these can be combined? maybe? i dont now of any scouts that want a shield other than maybe rangers for added stats, and the stats on a melee healer shield should be about the same for scouts... maybe?
    -Bows, 1 all of scouts and plate tanks. just give the scouts the Strikethrough the tanks need and tanks the dps stats from the scouts.
    -Pouches, since brawlers can not use bows and some scouts like using them also, make them the same as the bows above.
    -Ranged Focus, Healers and Mages should be able to share?

    1 more idea... for the 1h tank/scout weapons. just give all of the 4.0's and 6.0's the combined offensive and defensive stats of the tanks and scouts and let all tanks and scouts use them. would this be overpowering?

    so in all you have 3 ranged items, 1 for 50% of the classes and 1 for 2 classes + giving another 1/4'th of the classes an Option....
    we need to have 3 1h weapons, 2 2h weapons, 3 shield/Secondary items.

    My point here is that for just 3 slots ATM we have too many variations that don't need to be different. if Spell weapons stats are all but going away and procs are going to be changed to be more generalised then combining weapon groups probably needs to be done. I may not have gotten all of the groupings right, but its a start.
  15. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    The amount of primary secondary and ranged items will work fine with this. I'm not sure why you are making an itemization post in thread about how items are chosen to drop, quality and usability are irrelevant here. May as well make a post about spell visual effects in a thread talking about ability balance.
  16. Plinc Active Member

    because quantity always effects quality.
    Silzin likes this.
  17. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Well first of all no it doesn't. that may be the vaguest 'always' I have ever read.

    Secondly that doesn't explain anything. Perhaps try justifying why loot dropping in amounts more accurately reflecting the weight they are already given requires a near complete overhaul in primary weapons.

    It doesn't btw. The CURRENT system might need an overhaul to compensate for the streakiness, allowing that item that refuses to stop dropping to be used by more people effectively but this would also entail more generic, boring items. You wouldn't fix traffic lights switching too fast by adding more lights to all of them everywhere to make it take longer to get from green to red, you would just lengthen the timers.

    A system that lets the devs more tightly control when and how often items drop on a smaller scale (per server) would actually allow for MORE variety without risking further uneven amounts, not require less variety. Furthermore it would allow them to better control when people get all the upgrades they need from certain content. Severely mitigating leaving an encounter behind when you haven't even gotten all his items nor getting all the items from an encounter well before new content is to be released which was part of Twyxx's concern.
  18. Plinc Active Member

    have you even read what Silzin posted?
    if you have a loottable of 100 items on 1 mob that drops 3 per kill, you may see some items multiple times and some never at all.
    what you want is to modify that so every item will be seen and Silzin says just reduce the table to 10.
    guess what a) works better b) is easier to implement c) will not shaft the other 23 people in your raid that want item#X instead of your item#Y
  19. Silzin Active Member

    I am not saying that is would be a perfect "Fix" but it may be a lot easier to implement. i think at the moment there are 6 or more ranged slot items that all have a change to drop from the same mob that your Bow drops from, and he drops 1 per kill. this is a 1 in 6 chance or 1/6 chance. if we can reduce the base number of drops from 6 down to 2 or 3 then it changes to a 1 in 3 chance or 1 in 2 chance over Doubling your chances of getting Your Item. this would ideally result in better loot distribution and more people in raid could use eace drop.

    Again it is not a perfect Fix, but its an idea that may Fix your Problem. just a different approach to the fix.
  20. Neiloch Well-Known Member

    Looks like they spawned hehe (unless census is still being buggy). Even considering the delay splitpaw got similar performance on items would still be MUCH better than what we are dealing with now.

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