Is the COE Design Template the Future of Everquest 2?

Deliberately ignoring a portion of your players is bad business. This would be like any company catering their product to deliberately be worthless to blacks by virtue of that they are black. Now please do not start a racist topic here that is merely an example. Raiding, Grouping, Tradeskilling and the Quests that are tied to them are reasons a great number of people still play this game.

You enjoy solo Caethre? That is fine, but for players like myself I would like to see
- More than 5 HM-Encounters
- More raid bosses in general each zone that are memorable... tbh I only remember Borrodas, Dralas M'gor, Ancient Sentinel, Bastion/Fitzpitzle and Drinal. The other bosses are forgettable I mean who is the 2nd boss of Altar?
*Oh each HM-Boss is memorable... if you can pull them.

- More Heroic related quests perhaps a progression timeline much like the Solo zones have?
- Raid progression. I got a hidden achievement for clearing CoE easy mode? Could that not have been made a quest at least? What about a HM version? I loved the Shoulders Quest back in SF that you got for reaching Palace of Rohen Theer after beating Labs.
- Heroic Zones dropping based on difficulty.
* Why would i run Wurmbones Crag/End and Chelsith when the Edilon zones and Dreadcutter virtually cover the same bases (minus a few slots that oh wait, I have crafed/steward gear for)

Basically I am saying, enjoy your way of playing weather you side with crusadachle or not is irrelevant. Play your Way Caethre, but don't say that my way is the wrong way. It is "another way" to play and has been for years.

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Estred,

Why did you make up some words and then just attribute them to me?
Where did I say how you play is the "wrong way"?

What I said, was that COE is great for casual players, and that casual players are where the money is.

Your other statement is too simplistic. The playerbase want different things, and indeed, they want opposing things. For example, some things developed for me, are of no interest to you, and vice-versa. There are only so many resources. For me, all those HM encounters you mention I would never use. It would be 100% wasted content.

Now if I were just one player saying that, SOE wouldn't care.

But if 100 players basically agree with you, however their market research shows 10,000 players basically agree with me, tell me, what decision are they going to make? Please tell me if it was YOUR business, that you would decide to risk alienating 10,000 over 100? I think you would not.

Yes, I know those are exaggerated made-up numbers, and I also know the above question is very simplistic as well, but you get the point - sometimes SOE will be forced to make decisions that please some players and annoy others. If we are all honest with ourselves, we can see the way the MMO market is going, and we know the reasons why.

As I said earlier, I would love COE to be the template for future expansions here on in. Whether it will or not, well, all expansions take a different tack, but they will become increasingly casual-player friendly, because that is the reflection of the marketplace.
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It needs a few heroic questlines worth doing and grouping for. the advanced solo fruit machine was fun for a while but theres only so many times you can be bothered to run through them.

Be careful what you wish for, they're liable to add them to the station cash store.

As best as I can tell, from what I've read in interviews, the forums, and seen in game, is that CoE is basically a 'catch their breath' sort of expansion. They're trying to bring solo players up gearwise to be closer to the level of raiders (heroic drops should also get a red slot and at least as good stats- not sure why that was overlooked).

It's possible heroic content was "overlooked" because that's the least played part of the game. I don't know. I do know that SOE knows. They've got DB queries telling them exactly what subscribers are spending their time (and SC) doing: decorating, raiding, solo questing, "seasonal" questlines, HM Heroic, crafting, etc...

I don't know what Arch's beef is, but as the saying goes: Please don't feed the trolls.

They've said they'd like "content" expansions to be free but need more subscribers. COE is an attempt to generate those gold level players. There's a lot they can do once they have that stable base, but without it, TBH they're in crisis management mode - they can't develop content because they want to or it would be 'cool' or whatever. Everything has to be geared toward attracting and retaining gold level subscribers or getting the FTP to spend an equivalent amount of SC: will this new quest (or any content) idea attract enough new players? will it help retain enough current subscribers? If the answer to those questions is no, then that's a quest they can't afford to put zots into when there are other things that have a better chance of meeting those targets.

It's sad that EQ2 has reached this point, but there it is. And what's worse, if EQ2 goes down, it takes a bunch of other games down with it - the devs they've put on CWA and Vanguard being the obvious first choices on the chopping block. CWA actually may be paying for itself - every 'chest' you get requires real money (SC) to open. Let's hope they don't bring that model over here...

Woa woa woa. Some of you are actually asking for a full fledged expansion. That's just crazy talk

Says the person that raids 4 nights a week and can't kill any CoE HM mobs. What is the point of raiding that often if you can't even be in the top 5 guilds on your server? If you are going to raid for a ridiculous amount of time, atleast be good at it. 4 night a week EM raid guild FTW!

As i said earlier.. i'd really like to hear what in your opinion makes it so good for casual players. As far as i can tell, all the previous expacs actually had MORE stuff for casual players (who do do group content!)

And my post is basically asking for an answer to your comment. If Sony has indeed decided to cater to nothing but the Solo playerbase, then let's be upfront and honest so those of us that actually do enjoy playing an MMO as a mulit-player event can break from our 8+ years with this game before it gets even more pathetic to watch for us.

It never fails that no matter what the amount of time spent on raiding its considered a ridiculous amount. If people had to spend 4 hours a week to raid people who only play 1 hour would proceed to call them names for having no life/job or some other ridiculous notion.

Do people who dump on raiding realize that everything below it is magnified in negativity for it since raiding is just an increase in difficulty of most playstyles? If raiding is just a matter of slamming against a mob for hours that means heroics are pathetically easy and solo zones are sadder still. If people spend hours raiding and that's sad then spending hours crafting or soloing or running heroics is even sadder. If people who raid are just wasting time, every other play style is even a bigger offender of this.

So how about people stop dumping on other play styles for whatever reason and agree that ALL play styles should be accommodated. A tug-of-war will only result in each play style lacking content most of the time.

Very well said. I got caught up in the "all casual players are scrubs" and "all hardcore raiders are elitist snobs" fray. The crusade is over. From hence forth all players shall play the way they want to and not be ridiculed for the good of the game! We must come together to save our game! Casuals, hardcores, house decorators, roleplayers, farmers, we call to you to stand together! We can make this game what it once was! We can restore it to its former glory! Join me friends, the revolution begins now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love you all

We all say things for the sake of argument were I misrepresenting your thoughts intended that is how I personally read them. Of course they are going to put time in the Majority but however they should not cater so much to the majority that they cause the minority to quit. I feel that CoE has unfairly treated certain aspects of the game many of which is tied to group/raid content compared to past expansions.

We though are of opposite opinions and tbh, I respect that. Caethre you have at least framed a form of counter argument and I will read it more in depth when I am not in the middle of pulling 3-Well Drinal. Till then... this is more an "at least you have a point to make comments about" post.

It's a lot like driving. Anyone going faster than you on the highway is crazy, and anyone driving slower is an idiot.

Honestly, i would say sixty percent of the people playing this expansion are happy with this expansion due to its over-powered solo instance gear. However its the forty percent that sony is ignoring. Its not so much that sixty percent of your player base likes it, its more so the forty percent who do not.

I really think we're over estimating the soloers.

I'm tempted to stand outside one of the instances and pole people if they're happy to be soloing for gear vs grouping.

and after you're done with that, you can poll them too.

sorry.. you kinda walked into that.. uhm.. pole.

LOL, don't ever forum on your phone...

I swear this phone makes me 5x dumber than I already am.

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SOE is not "catering to nothing but solo playerbase". As well as solo quests and instances, there are a list of heroic instances and raidzones in this last expansion. There are some bugs, and there are some itemization issues, but neither of these imply that SOE is only working on solo content. You may not *like* some (or even all) the content, but that is a separate statement.

My comment is basically this: I *do* like the new content. It is just an opinion. You do not have to share it.

I'd also add: you are overreacting and sound like you are just really angry. Games are meant to be fun, perhaps a break from the game would be advised for you if the game is making you this angry.
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Ok, I will try. What makes COE good for casual players?

- Most casual players build their gaming into gaps in their normal life. Many therefore build much of their time around solo or duo-with-partner playstyle, or with a very small circle of others (but who by their very nature may or may not be logged in at the same times). This is the essence of what casual players do - they fit in play with their lives, group with those they like (and avoid the unpleasent in-game behaviour, language and attitudes of the types who like to frequent the public channels). So an expansion with a lot of good solo content like COE has is going to please them. An assumption that casuals *only* solo is an incorrect one, of course they don't, but they are much much more likely to spend a majority of time doing so, as they play on their own terms, not on the terms of others.

- Pick-up groups have become increasingly unpleasent in the last few expansions, due to the increase in the "gap" between SLR-acquired-raidgear and solo-acquired/heroic-acquired gear leading to stupid levels of expectation from some players, which has lead to many casuals (myself included) being increasingly reluctant to deal with that one vulgar loudmouth who seems to be present in every such group, shouting on about some other group member's parse - so more solo content is a way to avoid such idiots.

- Most casuals I know love questlines. COE has the most interesting and detailed questlines I have seen, with really good lore. Yes, I did every questline in SF and DOV, and these are better. Obviously that is a subjective judgement, but you asked for an opinion. This is why I am currently going through the COE signature line with my 7th character (and I aim to do it with all ten - but that will take time).

- The COE "Advanced/Solo" zones are the best of their type ever conceived. The best part is that they bring the gear level of casual-style players up, and that is a GOOD THING. Of course, the hardcore raider types will scream blue murder at this, but it is important that SOE ignore them on this if they want to retain and attract more players.

Personally I would have added a complex tradeskill quest line and I would also have added the rare redslot fabled armour drops currently in the solo instances to the heroic instances as rare drops as well. And of course there are bugs (some of those green adorns really just don't level correctly, SOE will fix it at some point). The other thing I would have done is remove the ability to SLR loot that is intended as non-tradeable/heirloom, so that it you have to be "there at the kill", which would actively encourage players to do content themselves, not just farm coin to buy it from farmers without ever having to do it themselves (this would apply to loot from all types of content).

But overall, I am still very happy with COE, and a lot more so than I was with DOV. I am enjoying EQII more now than I have for quite a few years.

However, you do not need to be. We are all allowed our own opinions.
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You are either willfully blind or just ignorant to the truth about the catering to the solo playerbase that you refuse to admit or see. I'm not sure which. You keep talking about how great the questlines are for CoE and yet you say you did EVERY quest line in SF and DoV?????

Then what about the HEROIC instance quests in The Hole? What about the HEROIC TIMELINE in Drunder? What about the HEROIC access questline to VELKS? What about the EPIC questline in Sentinels Fate that led through the raid zones? What about the REALLY COOL Tower of Frozen Shadows Heroic and Epic lines?

No. You did the SOLO quest lines. Heres a news flash for you. I did IT ALL. From the solo all the way through the epic and you know what? I enjoyed every bit of it.

Geez, I can't even get a daily quest for an obol before zoning into heroic Dreadcutter now. They were too lazy to even do that.

You are trying to justify your argument by saying the CASUALS when all you are really talking about is the SOLO's. Even I have friends who are casual who used to actually group with us but now dont even bother since they just run solo's and don't see the worth of grouping.

The Advanced Solo's were a good idea. Heck, I even think the armor drops and bringing the SOLOERS up to grouping levels is a good idea. It might actually entice them to PARTICIPATE in an MMO.

As this topic seems to have run it's course, I am going to go ahead and close it up.