The fact that people aren't using them doesn't mean they can't, they're probably more well matched with a guardian for MT right now than they've ever been. As far as the ability to track HPS vs ability to measure stoneskins...this would probably add up to be in the guardian's favor in raid zones, but anything less than raid mobs and it's not true, and doesn't even compare well. Zerkers are pretty much invincible in any content that doesn't hit for more than a few % of their health...as hit point pools go up the amount of content this includes increases (although it's trivial content that none of the tanks would die to if approached properly). But no amount of stoneskins a Guardian produce will keep them alive through say...50 single up mobs for example, eventually they'll whittle us down and we'll die, and that's if we're standing there trying to play the toon. Guardians just have no way to recover from the hitpoints they lose between their defensive abilities, while Zerkers can pull that many mobs and literally go afk forever and Adrenal Flow (passive) will keep them alive. I think that's probably what more people are mad about, they're seeing Zerkers do ridiculous stuff with tons of mobs, cause it's trivial content and complaining. I personally don't really care, I was a Zerker till RoK and it's nice to see them be in a great place again, and I've enjoyed messing around with my alt Zerker so far this expac.
That makes perfect sense since we are AoE tanks afterall... you won't see Zerks complaining about how OP Guardians are at tanking hard hitting single target mobs.
I didn't say their complaining was justified, just that it's probably stemming from them only seeing Zerkers in a setting where their strengths play very well, cause there are more people running heroic content. While not everyone, that doesn't raid with one, gets to see what a Guardian is good at surviving against...cause we're pretty ridiculous vs single hard hitting mobs right now.
We certainly were. Now that HP is so high it's less noticeable. In the previous xpac the difference between a zerker on say, 70khp and an SK or Guard on 90khp was noticable. Now STA is in such abundance, it can often be just a gear thing. Although like for like zerkers are still at the bottom of the HP pile.
Ultimately zerkers are amazing at taking lots of little hits. And that's what they're designed for and it hasn't changed. Getting hit for high damage and they start to struggle, although they do have the AAs/prestige to improve this if taken. As everyone says, it's only because you can see it on ACT that people notice and question it. Max HP debuffs can't be seen, stoneskins can't be seen, so these go unquestioned.
Eh, I've seen Zerks do just as good as a Guard vs hard-hitting single targets and that is where my issue Stems from and I feel some slight adjustments to push them more towards AE-Encoutners would be a safe adjustment without breaking the class. Warriors in general have been the 3rd wheel tanks for a long time. Guards have been second fiddle to Monks for 3 years and Zerks have been doing it to Crusaders for the same amount of time. Now this means either I have seen some Bad Guardians on my illusionist or I have been seeing some amazing Zerks. At least, I hope that's what it is.
I haven't seen a Zerker in a raid setting other than an alt we bring in if we're short a tank, and then he's never in charge of tanking the main named. If you're referring to Arhmatal (pre-changes) being the "hard-hitting" single target mob, then yeah they probably had a bit of an edge there. He hit too hard and too often, cause of huge amounts of strikethru, and pretty much striped all of the Guardian's stoneskins in the minimum duration if you figure in Stoneskin Reaction. So where the Guardian's stoneskins have a 15 second duration, a 24 second duration, and a 30 second duration...you'd normally get a 4.4 second duration, a 3.3 second duration, and a 7.7 second duration. Where Zerkers are guaranteed their duration on Battle Frenzy/Adrenaline. Pre-changes a Guardian was much better off with 1 warden and bring an extra dps and kill it fast, while our alt zerker could take 2 healers and heal enough to heal through actually being hit more than once. But in raids with mobs fully debuffed Guard's stoneskins last much closer to their full duration if not fall off without being completely used up, which equalizes them with zerkers again in that sense. The major thing stopping guards from being "better" at single target raid mobs, is that no mobs we've seen so far at least have a significant hit that isn't trauma based. So there is really benefit to our stoneskins being labeled as "all damage" cause the way it is it would be better if our stoneskins didn't trigger on magical damage and we could save them for the next autoattack.
I stopped grouping with one zek, got fed up of the lag induced by him pulling 5-10 encounters. I don't think he plays well because my inqui had tremendous issue keeping him alive against final named. I do think that all he do is auto attack and his self heal on hit (adrenaline thing0, he does not even bother positioning the mobs or targetting (prob because his AA angle is 360 degrees). Probably one should limit the number of AOE targets for auto attack and self heal proc. Most aoe have a 8 targets limit, this could apply to auto-attack too.
Even with zek mythical ? In such case why does this moron pull 30 mobs (which implies massive curing, often dps getting massive damge etc ....). My paladin could do the same (Divine aura, crusader faith), but i don't inflict that to my groups.
Theres more to aoe dps than just autoattack Most of the aoes will hit atleast 8 targets. Not to mention procs, ripposts ect. I'd have to double check but i think insolence might be uncapped and hit everything. Why pull more than 1 group. Its fun. Its efficient. Sure there's a point where that efficiency dwindles but as long as the healer can keep up why does that matter so much. Sounds like you just got a bad zerker.
In PvE our guild zerker does a good job at tanking. In PvP open world, drops alot faster than most fighters. I like them how they are. Very doable in grps and PvP with a little support. I am against class nerfs. Its more gear/proc OP that needs attention. Things change by the week as more and more players get geared up. Some have the edge of playing everyday and some of us work long hours. So imbalance is going to be a natural eb and flow thing for sometime to come.
