Kigneer wrote: If you'd like to make a thread about why crafted gear should be better than raid gear, and why raiders should just all stop raiding and take up crafting, please do so If you'd like to discuss how crafting and raiding can be better tied together, please post an idea
Rivenly@Oasis wrote: I did. Raiders bring in the rares. crafters make it into uber gear. And because everything is for sale to the highest bidder, crafters should be making the best gear out of those rares anyway. With customizing possible, even more so as one of the major complaints of raiders of dropped loot is the pieces don't match or looks ugly. Why crafting the gear has it's bonuses -- the pieces can match, and to the style of the raider. Win-win.
Kigneer wrote: The point about dropped gear not matching isn't a major argument since appearance slots were put in. But the items that raiders are bringing in should be heirloom. There's no selling it to the highest bidder then unless it gets sold at the time of drop. If the best stuff drops in zones with access requirements (as I think it should) then there is no selling it to the highest bidder, it'll be the highest bidder that has access.
when I logged into test today I had a bunch of gear in my overflow that changed to heirloom- including my cloak from Trak. Now if only I could find a tailor who could upgrade it a bit....
Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote: It still is, because the appearance gear folks are looking for can still be what they don't want -- for example, for a Paladin a SILVER SHINY winged helmet. No appearance item is the same (and no, white isn't the same). And black gear is so in demand (especially for SKs) I wind up making cloth MC for lower tiers just so they can have something black, but it doesn't look right! Unless SoE is willing to lock zones that only those admitted can loot, folks will still sell the drops. If it's uber uber rares for uberest gear, the zone needs to be locked to that party only, and perferably no heirloom -- no-trade. Would be nice to see raiders in raid gear they actually worked for, not bought for a change.
Kigneer wrote: This might be better on a thread on the items and equiptment thread.... Back to the subject- It would be way to difficult to make an "upgrade" recipe for each drop from every raid and heroic instance. What if in T9 there was a legendary and fabled set for each class that could be "imbued." The imbued material would be a drop from the crafting instances (and tradeable for those crafters who just want to make some quick plat and not deal with commisioning work) but the recipe would have to be earned by the crafter somehow- and be difficult to get. There could be an imbuing recipe for a few quested weapons, as well as jewelery. I'm not sure what would be good for some of the non-gear making classes though. Only thing that springs to mind is something similar to the EH recipies with the seeds and such.
Rivenly@Oasis wrote: Whatever you're suggesting isn't what we were talking about. If it's a rare drop, it's going to be fabled, not legendary (which isn't rare) and certainly not anything to imbue (which is MC) or "upgrade". The rare drop can operate like the shard system. That rare can be crafted in a piece of gear for a raider on a no-trade/commission system. But unlike the shard system, no-trade (no selling it). It ensures it's truly is uber material, and ensures crafters can use it, not letting it sit on the broker out of reach of crafters without huge money bags (a problem with adornments, as the price of mana is a major way to prevent crafting them -- and after seeing what RA did to the price of silicate [it going up in price] the market with 100000 transmuters isn't going to decrease the price of mana by much, as it's still going to be a 1 in 4 breakdown item [and with the heirloom tag, going to make them even more rare]).
Kigneer wrote: Your right- we are not talking about the same thing. I do not think that SoE will take away raid dropped gear- ever. Therefore, I am trying to look for a solution that will allow craters to still have a hand in the mix that I think they might actully implement. In the current tier with shard gear, you go to an npc to turn it into an item. I think it should have been taken to a crafter instead. Pretty simple. i am hoping for a difference in T9.
It's always an interesting idea, every way I've seen it implemented though. I just don't see it much. I wouldn't be likely to ever craft anything that came from a raid zone, cause I'm not in a raid guild. Also, theres nothing to drive customers to a particular crafter. We are all the same and churn out the same stuff. That right there makes the idea fail. Why would someone come to *me*? Over cookie cutter crafter 045. Theres nothing in this game that makes one crafter unique over another.
Nuhus wrote: Just like raiding and fighting you get a rep, and it carries over. It's that rep that has folks buying your stuff, despite it may not be the cheapest, either. When they associate you with a certain item, you'll get recommendations from others, and it goes from there. It also helps to help folks out. I get a lot of tells from folks I've helped mentored and all, and usually they're the ones who buy my goods later, "Foreen, yeah, he's the one that makes that raid food". If you're just 045 crafter, yep, no one will know you from Adam.
Well, personally I have no reason to choose any crafter over guild crafter 045, they can make stuff just as good as reputable crafter 045
Nuhus wrote: Aye, this is a problem. I would like to see the recipies really hard to get though, so you would have to find a skiller of that class, with the recipie, who is willing to meet you for a commission. That does narrow it down some. The challenge would be how to make the books really hard to get without making them raid drops. Honestly, the shard armor books were just too easy to get hold of. Maybe some really long quest that most casual skillers just wouldn't be willing to put the time into doing? hmmm any suggestions?
Kigneer wrote: In a game where the crafting system is difficult, failure has consiquences and rare components are truly rare, there is nothing wrong with that. unfortunatly, none of those things exist in EQ2.
Kigneer wrote: The thing is, the majority of the gear in question would be obtained by fully organised raiding guilds. A player in such a guild would use a player from their own guild to create any raid item if one is avalible. Since reputation is subjective, as in the reputation I have of you is more to do with how I see you than how you actually are, no one has as good a reputation as your own guildies. Players that actually need to look for a crafter are almost always one of three things. They are people that are truly new to the game (a rarity), people that rerolled on a new server, or people that are leveling up a toon they don't want associated with their main. The total market for sales of this kind is small for every crafter other than scholars.
Noaani wrote: Well, Noaani, my store logs disagrees with you. And unlike your idea, the logs are facts. Like with any guild with server populations like they are, even the most "fully organized raiding guilds" are in want of something. And reputations are build by acts of kindness. Try it, you may reap the rewards!
Noaani wrote: This is the prime reason why it's pointless to implement for raid gear. Even the upgrade idea (which is a great idea) is still pointless because it's still going to stay within the raid guild. The only time non Raid crafters will get a chance to do any of that is if the item is not needed by a member of the raid guild and it gets sold to a non raider. Even then the raid guild that sells the item will offer to craft it for the buyer making it pretty rare that a non raiding crafter gets a chance to do any of this. Now, instead of having the Fable items drop directly in the Heroic instances, they could have TS items drop that would let crafters turn into the fable item. This I think would give non raiding crafters more of a chance to make use of this idea.
Serenade wrote: What's wrong with that? or do crafters who raid not count as crafters? Frankly, players who don't raid but are in guilds will commonly go to guild crafters first before total strangers. Does that mean they don't count as 'real' crafters either and should get anything special? Adding to that, real life friends, couples, or families will often go to each other to have something made. Does that mean they shouldn't count, too?
Ok, what about this- a crafting raid. You would need to have 18 crafters for it- ideally 2 of each class. You would have 10 minutes to complete 180 combines total. The timer would start when you zone in. It would cost each person about 1p in fuel cost. At the end of the raid, if done in time, a recipe would drop- similar to the EH recipies. It would be for a random skilling class, so each person would have to roll on it. It would also be no-trade. This recipe would be for a "best-in-game" item type. The zone would also have a three day lockout. Would you go?
Rivenly@Oasis wrote: Or better a raid that must have 80 crafters (be a welcome changed, as too many adventurers don't craft), that have to craft items in that instance only (item drop has like a 8hr use before it goes POOF!). Sure would beat those Far Seas Supply Division crafting runs.
