Chisa@Nagafen wrote: The shard armor books that drop in the crafting instances are FAR FAR better than the recipes you buy with faction, in my experience.
Noaani wrote: Averages mean nothing, Noaani. Averages can mean rubies are worth but 1p max, but are selling NOW for 3p. What sells yesterday or tomorrow doesn't matter. So if different server prices doesn't matter, Noaani, I can use 49p and you can mail it too me. I'm sure 49p is but chomp change for you!
Noaani wrote: I think you're just forgetting them or just don't want to remember them. paraphrasing one example which was a VERY widespread complaint (and had threads created for it at least once a month for a while): "Why do tradeskills have the absolutely best charm in the game?!! This is so unfair!" Even with the EH items, there were many many complaints from raiders about needing tradeskillers to make them. The wurmscale items weren't complained about as much but that's more because the game was new and DoF release didn't happen yet. After DoF's release (with cobalt crafted being better than most T5 raid dropped) and the subsequent first relignment of items, there were more complaints about "the proper place of crafting" when something dropped required crafting to make it. Oh.. and I forgot another couple sets of items (in my list of items that are crafted from adventurer drops), the Nest items in Kunark KoS and the Halasian Whiskey from Unrest. edit: fixed the brain slip Noanni noted and clarified my addition.
Chisa@Nagafen wrote: Not that long. Just do the rush orders and you can plow through the faction requirement in no time @ 500 a writ. The recipes are okay, but for Provies we got those charms, with the berries costing more than T8 mana. Other TSers may have better recipes that doesn't require such high-end components to make. And the books don't offer than much more income, especially if there's maybe one call for a shard armorer/jeweller a night. The unicorn I thought would help on harvesting, but with it the cloak/earring/belt/boots the rare drops about the same as without it.
Rijacki wrote: I also don't remember any adventurer complaints about these. I don't remember any crafter complaints at the time about the Nest items, but I remember a few about the Unrest drink (not many, but a few). Edit: that said, what has happened need not have much bearing on what can or what should happen. We know there are several ways crafters will not accept crafting content additions, and if there were indeed realivent complaints from adventurers about how the items entered the game, we have those as well. All these things serve to do is provide a guildline as to how to not implement it in the future.
Rijacki wrote: No more complaints about Unrest and the Sadistic Bartender (nest books at 80 are easy to get), as that book was tradeable and bought for 40g (he didn't drop it the first time, and I died 7x trying to solo him myself [bye-bye LoE, no more need to solo such content!]). And whiskey can be had pretty easily -- figured that out soloing part of the zone to get it. BUT, the Tender's books are rare to find, as EH raids are rarer than rare (at least folks are raiding Guk). And my luck that time I got on one, the woodworker's book drop instead.
As long as people are playing the game there will be complaints. You just can't please all the people all the time. However, there is a big disparity between adventuring and crafting. I can work really hard and spend lots of time on my raid main and I can look at all the"best-in-class" slots she has, full aa, myth and all masters and be proud of all the effort I've put into her. As a crafter, the most I can do is make some fairly common items that no one really wants. ( a few consumables are the exception) I want an end-game for crafting! I think there are alot of "hardcore" crafters that would love it as well
Noaani wrote: I wasn't saying there were or were not complaints specific to those items (though I do recall adventurer complaints about them) jsut that they, too are crafted items from adventurer drops. My point, though, is the same thing you're saying. Yes, there hopefully is some happy medium where it's acceptable to the adventurer (solo, heroic, raider, whatever) but can also involve crafters in making super spiffy things.
Rijacki wrote: Actually, I do remeber one adventurer complaint about that, but it only lasted as long as it took the person to realise you got really good crafting XP if you made the items at level 10. A medium would be attainable, without a doubt. In order to do that though, you need to figure out what it is crafters want from it, both in terms of heroic and raid level crafting. Do they want it as a means to make coin, a means to make top end equipment, a means to be wanted by adventurers, something to keep them busy - or do they want all four? Each of these would need to be tackled differently, and without answers to these questions, suggestions of how it could be implemented are hardly worth the time to type out. I know exactly what I would want to see out of any such system, and as an extention of that I know how I want it to be implemented. I also know not everyone would want it done that way.
GrunEQ wrote: You want to make raid level gear for your alts? Do you intend on raiding to get the components?
I was thinking a t9 crafter epic where the reward is a recipe- for example an armorer would get a recipe for e "shield of supreme uberness" as their reward. It would be a permanent recipe, but require a no-trade drop like "scale of dragon X" that would drop from a raid mob, along with some harvested rares. This would be a be one of the best shields available in-game. The other option woud be the upgrade - it would be a bought charged recipe (similar to Mara stuff) It would consume a tradeable item dropped in tradeskill zones, and would upgrade the raid-dropped item. I'd actually love to see both
GrunEQ wrote: I do wish there was some way that you could commission for a character on your own account without it needing to be "heirloom", i.e. ONLY for that one specific character who has the LORE/No Trade item.
Rivenly@Oasis wrote: While *I* would be happy with this, I would guarentee that a good number of armourers that do not raid would be upset at never getting the chance to use their epic reward. All it takes is one armourer in each raid guild that kills dragon X, and no one else on the server would make the item.
As a raider I like the idea of needing something dropped from mutiple raid mobs to amke an item but to make it worth the bother they would need to make the item crafted far better than the items dropped by those actual raid mobs. If not then why bother? If they DO make it that much better then all it does is further the itemization problems and bring us back around to the gear degredation problem. I play a conji and so my tier 3 class hat can be upgraded from ward of elements but it is not so much better than the base tier 3 that I will go o ut of my way to get it.
Noaani wrote: This is probably true, but it could be a secondary reward. Also, most raid guilds do have a full set of tradeskillers. Anything thats crafted will usually go thru them first. It was the same issue with EH recipies. I would just prefer that the recipies be hard to get, yet not have both the recipie and the drop come from raiders. Maybe a long access quest that would get you into a tradeskill instance that would have a chance to drop it? Yes, it would be difficult for skillers not in a raid guild to have the chance to make the items, but not impossible, and its still better than not having them at all.
Nimbrithil wrote: Nope. They only need to make it a little better, or for a different slot. Raiders will go to fairly great lengths for a minor increase - thats what raiding is mostly about.
Noaani wrote: Or, in the same idea as the drop rate thread from months ago, equal but with its own cool factor.
Noaani wrote: Yep. If you make it so that it gains 1 more crit chance, or +30 more damage for the upgrade, they'll go for the upgrade so long as it isn't totally rediculous to do. Heck some would go for it even if it was totally rediculous, if it was the best item available that they were looking to upgrade.
Noaani wrote: This point always makes me chuckle and I have to agree with Noaani on this one. Well balanced toons are the best way to play and most serious raiders already know this. You max both and contribute to the guild equally like everyone else.
