If it weren't for grey shards, I'd have no shards at all.

Reading Kiara's post, that SOE is actively seeking to remove the ability to get shards from grey zones, makes me sad. I have yet to find a PUG that that can clear these zones at normal levels in less than hours. That is NOT an exageration. Grey a lot of them are still undoable. I need like 1800 more shards for 8 level 80 characters.
If you are going to remove this, then you need to add quicker/easier ways to get shards for those of us that don't have raid gear. AND you need to add people tot he server that we can group with, Nektulos at least is a freaking ghost town.
"Let the flames roll."

Oh, great. So the current 80s get easymode, while all the ones who aren't quite there yet get shafted? That's fair.

Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote:

Exactly, normal SOE SOP, let the raiders go through and get the goods through these exploits (and the plat they have earned at 5p per shard) then shut it down for the normal people coming behind.

I dont see why it could hurt anybody if a couple of people wanted to run a gray quest. I personally find it more fun to do them as lv80s because its a decent challenge for me and I always get out of there with a rare now and then as well as a extra shard.
The stuff that you can get from the shard merchants are decent but its not stuff that blow people away. I see lots of better items out there. It seem like a great option to people who doesnt raid and just want to be able to equip their characters with decent stuff.
I honestly cant see why this harm has to be made. Its been this way for months I believe. Why start changing it now?
I have tried and done these gray quests. Does that mean that I am going to be in trouble now?
Kinda liked the option of everyone being able to do these instances. Not to mention that it actually isnt everyone who can do them as it require a character you can mentor in order to make them gray and not everyone has that. I know that I dont.
That said, I can see why its considered an exploit. The stuff the merchants sell are lv80 and because of that I suppose that it should be a lv80 instance.
IMO, leave it as it is so noone will be upset.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

You do realize that its not really raiders doing this but more-so the "I cant run heroic zones cause im ****" crowd

and in all honestly if you are greying out zones to get shards dont waste you're time, the gear wont help you much when you dont even run heroic zones

I also hope they delete all gear and shards obtained by this OBVIOUS exploit

Well they have officially removed a lot of the incentive to do these zones grayed out now... since we can't sell the shards. (which I posted elsewhere as bogus) So why should they mess with this even more? It's always the constant argument between the hardcore players who want to make sure they stay better than the casual players, and the casual players who want to catch up. And the casual players say that nerfs that widen this gap are unfair, and the hardcore players call those people noobs and whiners. I wish everyone could play how they want to and that SO would quit messing this stuff up. I myself, for example, have a bunch of lv 80s (both crafters and adventurers) and would love the opportunity to get them some myth updates and masters... (but since they are alts they can't get in on guild raids, and they dont get played as much so won't get masters). So every time I come across a decent way to make some money to advance my toons... shortly afterward, SOE nerfs it because people are complaining about it. (i.e. - void shard selling, and ethernaut shiney farming in Ferzhul) I can't handle harvesting for hours on end (especially since botting isn't allowed) to get the money, and I don't know of another way because my guild rarely auto-splits coin during raids. So gaining the money is excruciatingly slow and it's very frustrating every time one of my avenues to making money gets removed from the game because of elitists. *end rant*

this will just lead to another endless flamewar. Oh, and btw, don't forget it's not only about shards, it is also about aaxp.

In all honesty ToS groups are hosed for many classes. Most groups consist of Tank/ hate transfer/ hate transfer/ buffer/ healer/ DPS. Ok, you can get away with Tank/ hate transfer/ buffer/ 2 healers/ 1 dps in some groups . The point is, if you are not a coercer, illy, dirge, troub, swash or assassin, you are waiting a long time for groups.
Greying out instances is just a way for the classes who are hanging out, waiting to be the lucky 'chosen' one for that single dps spot in groups, to pass time and earn shards. Yeah, you don't get the rewards of running them with a lvl 80 group, but, it is better than nothing. Many of the greyed out quests can take much longer than 10-15 minutes, those are the ones people will just bypass, or, do out of boredom. Others are actually nearly impossible, like killing all the named mobs in Najena. Even grey and me halfway decently geared, mythicaled, with 175 aa, those are not killable.
You just implemented shards in raids. Every raider can now get what, 5-8 shards in an evening of raiding? That will make raiders less inclined to do groups; making groups even more difficult to find for the casual player. Why you would suddenly decide this is an unintentional way of getting a small amount of shards and aa for the casual player is beyond me. It is fine the way it is. At least until you fix the way hate works, so more classes can find groups.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

I can't speak for Nektulos, but you can get a pug on unrest in under 10 mins. about 9:10 are successful.

My 2cp on this is that this has been left in since launch of the expansion, and done so when Devs obviously knew about it. The Devs ensured that the shard quests would not work in a mentored zone, they made the zones work with not only the shard quests but also the HQs that go into these zones, etc, etc...
I honestly don't see why this is being considered an "exploit", when this is not exploiting a glitch in the game, but rather something that the Devs left in for almost 5 months now. I can honestly say I know this has been happening for at least 4 months, if there was an issue I would think that this would have been brought up and fixed by now.
Exploits in the past (remember the issue with selling from a few months ago) they went out of their way to ensure that people knew about it.
This isn't getting a post in the Announcements section, no mention on the main page of EQ2Players, no mail in game, no System messages or announcements in game, nothing. This isn't even a sticky post in this forum, you have to know were to look to even see the response. (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=447023)
Also I thought we were to have a more open discussion on changes that are going to be made, locking topics doesn't lend credability to that....
=(

Shards? Aren't they the new plat?
I think I have about a dozen. Not sure what to do with them yet, mind, but then I'm just a clueless noob

Cold, this is not a slam on you, just some constructive criticism. After looking at your gear and AA's, I can see why you're having problems with these zones. You're going to have to stick to Scion and Deep Forge until you get your T1 set (you may be able to handle other zones if you're not tanking). Even with PUGs, no way those 2 zones should take hours to clear at 80. You also seem to be kind of far behind in the AA curve (I am as well), so that's also something you need to work on. Instead of worrying about outfitting 8 characters, pick one, and get that one up to par. You'll find things much easier that way, and less frustrating.

Guys, the team is still working on it. The fix isn't in yet, so please don't fret about it just yet.
Feel free to discuss and give feedback, just try to remember to remain civil please.

Well, I got all my T2 armor without greying out but on my alts we always just grey it. Don't have the time to run these things 10 hours a night to get enough shards for alts and guildies.
Just leave it alone

If this absolutely has/had to be changed, I thought it sounded pretty cool to have some other quests added for the more casual players. The ones who doesnt raid and group up and dont play the right classes etc.
For example, the current void shard instances could be for 80s only and reward you with shards but also chests (like they already do when you do them as 80s). New ones could be added that would give what the current gray shard instances give. A simple shard.
As already said, its not like this gear come close to some of the "real" gear this game has to offer.

WTF?
So according to older dev comments, the issue was acknowledged and not considered an exploit. There are dozens of threads on the subject. And then out of left field, Kierra says "Exploit", locks thread, and end of discussion / no announcement?
But I agree with the OP, if it weren't for grey, I wouldn't have that many. And I'm not sure I'd still be playing. It's not that I'm anti-group. It's that groups are anti-people unless you perfectly fill the niche they're seeking.

A) Just because you have 30 different toons doesn't mean every single one of them needs a full set of T2 shard armor. If that's what you want to do, then great, but it's going to take you forever, and it SHOULD take you forever. Sony doesn't need to dumb everything down for everyone else because of the 0.1% of the population that feels they need to have 8 "active" (lol, how active can they all be with that many of them) toons.
B) If you think you need raid gear to run instances then, I'm sorry, but you either need to learn how to play or you need to find five other people that know how to play. If you're in a guild with 7 other people, none of which are level 80, then again, that's not really SoEs fault, and they don't need to cater to that situation. I've done every TSO instance up to and including Attrebe's (in difficulty) with 6 non raid gear toons. Not even remotely optimal groups. Not a myth in the bunch. And zones like DF take 30 minutes with non raid geared people, as long as they're competent.
And if you can't do em gray? Man, I don't know what to tell you.

Kiara wrote:

Are there any real reason as for why this change has been considered and pretty much agreed to happen?
I mean, is it because it simply dont require enough work in your opinion(s) and because some of them can be done solo as well as duo'ed?
Because as lots have already said, its not exactly easy even to solo unless you get a quest that require you to collect a few crystals or bones where you dont have to unlock a new level by killing a boss mob.
Just wondering why this has to be taken away from us. If it wasnt intended why did this go on for 4 months without a word from the red names and now all of a sudden its just like. You are SOL if you dont group or raid.
Please dont read it the wrong way. Im really just wondering and curious. Its all a bit unexpected.

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

You have to be exaggerating here. Hours? Even marginally competent people in legendary RoK gear should be able to do the easier zones like Deep Forge and Scion of Ice in an hour or less. But if you really are having such a problem with PUGs, then the solution is simple: join an active guild, and don't depend exclusively on pickup groups.

NicolasKL wrote:

Oh come on now. You know darn well that certain classes are not wanted in shard runs. Especially pickups.