Hypothetical question(s)!

I really like this idea of combing woodworkers with carpenters and weaponsmiths with armorers. I think it would be a great change for the game.

I could not support the combining of tradeskills. My main is a Woodworker. It is what I chose after looking at both. It is what I want to remain. My two other main crafter alts are Weaponsmith and Armorsmith. The same applies to them also, I chose what they would be, knowing what the pitfalls and benefits would be. I'm the "other" crafter. I don't give a rats patoot about selling, making big plat, or goofing about with a phoney economy. I craft to wear and use things I made myself, period. The flip side is, when I want a box, I pay someone else for it. Combining Woodworker and carpenter would make me self sufficient for all wood products. That is going to hurt down the road, as people create two Ubercrafters able to provide all metal and wood needs on two chars. We need better itemization. We need our products to have some semblance from tier to tier, some system. We need more variety in weapons models, racial models, the ability maybe to crafts stats onto various weapons "molds". By this I mean someone could ask for a Duel Wield Dagger, and I could ask OK.. Elven, Iksar, or whatever, same stats, different look. If we are going to have specialized armor we need to have ALL of it in a given tier, one of the few pluses to Player Made armor is the ability to craft matching sets.. IF we have all the pieces. Again Variety, for goshs sake, in armor we see the same stupid models over and over again, in common and rare, spread over many tiers. PLEASE give us some colors, unique looks, something besides that tired old carbonite chain model over and over and over again. I would love to see multi-rare combines requiring two crafters. Jeweled Dagger requiring Jeweler and Weaponsmith components. Enchanted Bows requiring Sage and Woodworker.... just a couple of examples. I realize this will never happen, but I can dream. Lastly, and this is personal, as a former SWG crafter who saw crafting go from a world of endless possibilities and combinations to a second rate mishmash of unimportantness, I feel combining any tradeskills to be the first step on a slippery slope that eventually cripples and trivializes the crafting community.

[p]And why not make mobs drop (instead of what they are dropping now: armor, weapons, jewelry, adept I or master I books) common, uncommon and rare parts that must be combined by artisans to make weapons, armor, jewelry, etc, of different quality, including fabled?[/p][p]As an example, the fabled sword you want requires a 1 use fabled recipe, 3 fabled parts, 5 legendary parts and 20 treasured parts. Once you get them all, you go to a sage to buy the fabled recipe (if you have the required parts for that, of course), and then to a weaponsmith with all that stuff and you get the sword.[/p][p]This is a better approach to make all professions valuable, and to make EVERY drop, and specially every raid mob drop, something useful for everyone. No more animist armor pieces that go to transmuting because every warden and fury in the guild already got them.[/p][p]Even transmuting would be useful to transmute parts using a special 1 use recipe, like taking 20 trasured parts to get 1 legendary, or 10 legendaries to get 1 fabled.[/p]

[p]This changes the entire game dynamic, however, in favor of the tradeskillers vs. those who just want to adventure. There was an MMO that followed exactly this model, btw, and it bombed.[/p][p] [/p]

I'm opposed. This just sems to be putting a baid-aid on the problem of viability of classes and calling it finished. It won't fix the problems facing weaponsmiths and armorsmiths, mainly that JimBob can go out and kill x mob and get something leagues better than someone can work 70 levels to be able to craft. Some viability needs to be put back into the classes that are lacking, not just sweep those problems under the rug. There were some very good ideas. The notion of crafters able to bring something to the table that no one else can in terms of a specialized proc, certain resists (which we saw the start of with jewelers), stats specifically aimed at certain classes and even certain playstyles (ie, for my experience, rangers who raid might have more of x stat and thus wouldn't need it as much as a non-raider who doesn't have as many pieces with x stat). But the core problem is viability of classes and that's just not something merging them is going to solve.

[p]Very good point. If your goal is to make weapon smiths happy, this is probably too little and too late. If your goal is economical, as Zahmekoses stated, this would simply increase the number of metal crafters on a quite limited market.[/p][p]Now, if your goal is transform them into usefull crafters, simply bring back raid crafts in T6 and T7 as they were implemented in T5. Enlarge the scope by providing Group instance rare drops as well as Raid instance drops.[/p][p]What about crafting a Dvinn's Dagger made of the broken shard of the Ambassador's blade ? Or the Tarinax's Slicer made from its enchanted spine ?[/p][p] [/p]

[p]NOT VS adventurers. Just a nice boost for crafters. Adventurers that went to Sol Eye to get their Relic can go the same to a weaponsmith or sage to get their stuff after they got the pieces.[/p]

I'm a lvl 70 Carpenter and I like this idea very much. I've become Carpenter because of the Boxes we can make and because I wanted to some nice furniture for my apartment. Boxes now are so cheap that it's not much difference if you buy them in broker or make them yourself, my only thing I can craft and which is needed are the repkits. And the possibility to make Woodworking Items too, would give us more variety. In comparison to Jewler for example who is able to make skills for scouts and a ton of rings, earrings, wrists and so on, we really lack variety now.

[p][size="x-small">Woodworker + Carpenter = No. Cant see this as a good thing for all the people that went through the effort of bringing up there crafters to a high lvl in either of these. Would also remove any income that is generated by these two tradskills because the other wood user could just make the same thing.[/p][p]Armorer + Weaponsmith = Yes. Combine the recipies but at lvl 20 when they pick let them pick somthing like Metalsmith/Armorsmith or Metalsmith/Weaponsmith. Combine and give both of them the same common recipies for the tiers that can be found in the essentals books(both armor and weapons) but make the advanced books only have the mastercrafted recipies for their specialization. I.E. a metalsmith/armorsmith can make all carbonite armor and weapons but can only make mastercrafted armor, and a metalsmith/weponsmith can make all carbonite weapons and armor but can only make mastercrafted weapons. This allows people to still keep their specialization, and differences between the classes as well as gives both classes more recipies so it is less of a mindless grind. Also reflelects how any blacksmith can make a knife but only a few can make a really good knife.[/p][p][SIZE=3]64alchemist[/face][/size][/p][p][size="small"][face="andale mono,times"]Teace 26assassin/53woodworker[/face][/size][/p][/SIZE]

[p]Concerning this Hypothetical-I think two things need to happen before any major changes are considered.[/p][p]1. Tradeskills need a permanent Dev assigned.[/p][p]2. The Tradeskill Dev needs to develop a vision (with the help of the community, to an extent) and focus towards that end.[/p][p]Making changes like combining classes IMO will do more to cause chaos and confusion. What we really need is a goal to shoot for and a way to get there.[/p][p]Tradeskills are messed up right now because of a lack of vision and care on the part of past developers. With a dedicated Dev, who sets a vision before us, we can all help towards that goal and help right the ship that has been grounded for so long.[/p][p]Love your interaction Ilucide-but right now we need to wait for the two things I listed above. Kudos on fixing bugs and problems.[/p][p]If you get the position, I think you will find a lot of dedicated crafters will bend over backwards to help you with your job. This community is the most close-knit and committed of any in EQ2.[/p]

[p]I would be very happy if armor/weapon and woodworker/carpenter were merged. I always felt it was lame my (armor)smith stopped being able to make weapons after level 19. My carpenter has always struggled to gain experience due to lack of recipes compared to my sage or jeweler for instance. I vote yes on merging both referendum. [/p][p] [/p]

No actually it's completely different. Wizards and Warlocks don't have a lack of spells. Weaponsmiths have a lack of what they can do.

[p]I think it would make Smithery an overpowered tradeskill. Being able to equip yourself in full armour, weapons and a shiled is simply too much. Whilst this isn't that much of a problem in T7, where upgrades are easy to obtain it's still too much for lower tiers.[/p][p] That being said, Weaponsmiths need some loving. It's clear to everyone they got the raw deal in crafting for the reasons you outline in your original post. Armourers however, are fine as they are and don't need any love.[/p][p] Let's fix the classes, not merge them. There must be numerous ways in which to do this without taking such drastic steps. Why not just add another tier of crafting? Fabled. To an extent it worked in T5, I see no reason why you can't expand on that.[/p]

I have a lvl42 or so carpenter and omg it is boring trying to level off 1 recipe, or maybe two or three if I'm lucky.. only reason I got to 42 in the first place is the BCG HQ. Just noone needs what I make, and grinding off 1-3 items per level is boring.. I'd very much welcome a change like this.

[p]Jeezy Creezy - we actually get to enter into discussion with a dev about the direction that a part of our game takes? wowzer what is going on?[/p][p]Thanks Ilucide for sharing your musings.[/p][p]As far as weaponsmiths go I agree that they are not a viable tradeskill class (from the point of view of making money) and I do not think that they have been since the changes were made to cobalt. They have the most limited market and the most direct competition from risk v reward mob drops. However I would like to see their recipes split between woodworker, armourer and tailor - so as to avoid creating one class that can equip the majority of slots on fighter / scout classes (albeit in rather poor gear).[/p][p]However I do realise that this wish is unworkable (you would be effectivley destroying one TS class, forcing those people to /respec to another and no doubt costing yourself a fair few subscriptions) but thats more the direction I would like to see the change going than a straight merge.[/p][p]As for your comments on carpenters not being a viable class, or having too few recipes I am wondering how much time you have spent crafting as a carpenter? It is by far the most satisfying class to play (I have all of them except the afore mentioned weaponsmith), many people enjoy spending a long hours in game decorating their houses (we have our own forum.....) and it is a supremely able class from the role players point of view. [/p][p]As far as being viable (from a financial point of view) as a stand alone class, carpenters have plenty of consumables that allow a steady turn over (things like palm trees and paladin braziers are consumables, people always seem to need more) and in the higher tiers we have the fantastic fireplaces / t6 rare furniture (finally) and repair kits / t7 adornments (which are also amazing). It is entirely possible to make money as a carpenter but it simply is not why the majority of us rolled the class to begin with. Please take some time to browse the homeshow forum to see what I mean.[/p][p]For these reasons I have to disagree with you most strongly that the carpentry class is in need of merging with another to become viable. I chose to make a carpenter so that I could make furniture items and decorate my house with them. As did 95% of the other carpenters out there. If you are woried about the viability of the carpentry class, just stop giving away all of our t7 rare recipes as collection rewards (bit late now). If you are determined to merge woodworkers then merge them with weaponsmiths.[/p][p]I apologise for not approaching this from a woodworkers pov but mine is only mid t4, and calthine can argue for them anyways [/p][p]Edit: w** now flaged for the filter, I changed it..[/p]

[p]About says it all right there doesn't it ?? Only meant as a temporary piece, nothing permanent. Why would I want to buy a Handcrafted piece of armor/weapon, when I know the first time I find something better, I have vender fodder.[/p][p]We need to be fixed.[/p]

[p]Fantastic idea. Im a woodworker and wood (ha ha ) love to be combined with Carpenter.[/p][p]I can understand the resistance to it, just don't agree with it. I hope this does get implemented.[/p][p]I'd also like to say "woot Ilucide" - the dialogue in the past few weeks has been a breath of fresh air.[/p]

I think it is a good idea for a lot of the reasons people have already said. However, I would like to add the request that if you were to hypothetically merge tradeskills, you allow people a one-shot chance to reset their tradeskill and build it up again, now that the skills are different to what they were when they were first picked. In an era of the game where you can change your alignment, class, city of residence, AA build and skill loadout, I think it's about due, and this would be the perfect excuse to offer it.

I have a 30ish weaponsmith, and a 30ish Carpenter, and I gotta say I would love this for both of my crafting toons, especially my carpenter.

First of I'd like to express how grateful I am that tradeskills are being looked at since you've been tasked to it, Ilucide, and I see many good things happening here! Regarding your questions at hand, and having crafters of the affected classes (although I basically stopped crafting after one-button crafting revamp), I believe this would be a very good idea. It has been apparent for a long time that these classes have problems. While these problems not only result from the limited number of recipes, but also from the general concept of putting crafted gear at the lower end of item progression, I see your proposal as a viable step in breathing new life into these trades. Other steps to improve crafting are possible and maybe necessary, but I do not think that is the issue at hand. Also, issues people will be having (like those with both of two classes that will be merged) can be solved in various ways, but that is not the issue at hand, either. So thumbs up from me, I hope this goes in!