How was the First Day?

Discussion in 'General TLE Discussion' started by RadarX, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. Earar Well-Known Member

    it's not pay to win because to me .. you can play the game with adepts or experts or the masters u can find.

    u can level up crafting to make your spells and research some spells. since leveling is quite slow, u have time to get some spells till the next upgrade. 7h from adept to expert at lvl 20 is OK

    to me pay to win is when u need to pay to succeed at the game (like the GM glacial freeze that decreased 1 lvl of mob only at beginning and needing that for raid mobs and not being able to have a single drop of that spell from journeyman to master).

    making u level up faster is a choice. .. sure then it means you'll do the heritage quests faster .. but not as if all lvl 100 heritage were OP and BiS items
    Xephane likes this.
  2. Lyyle Member

    Off to a late start due to the Launcher problem, but so far it's been very nostalgic and fun as well. A few gripes (of course) :

    I wish time had been spent to clean up the lower tier loot tables and bring it all into line with the Faydark expansion. Even things like inconsistent capitalization in the item names makes it seem like a hodgepodge from bygone days, and not in a good way. Given this part of the game should impress and draw in new players, it seems like that stuff should have been addressed ages ago... and should always be a first priority. I'm not onboard with providing an instant 100 lvl button so that noobs don't have to see how shabby the beginning game is. It's a monumental waste of perfectly playable content if nothing else.

    I also wish some of the nerfed names had been brought back to their former glory. Grolven Chiptooth springs to mind... I still have fond memories of seeing groups fleeing across Antonica with Holly Windstalker (and a line of lizards) hot on their heals. "Sprint" actually used to be a very useful thing.

    Pet peeve: those horrid punter things. They are just being used to strip the landscape of the latest desirable shiny or harvest node as fast as possible. It's jarring and out of place, totally annoying, and feels a lot like cheating. I mean, you nerfed the housing portals, etc to maintain the atmosphere and then put this in? Really?
  3. Zenji Well-Known Member

    I suppose "winning" in this game entails getting the best loot and killing the most challenging bosses. Both require group(s). Unless you have an entire raid force at 50 way sooner do to pots it is irrelevant.
  4. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I don't think there is a single person 40+ who didn't use pots, unless they were playing like 24/7.

    Winning has always meant killing the hadest PVE mobs.
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  5. Zenji Well-Known Member

    I am not denying the effectiveness of pots, I used several leveling up. I was just implying that using pots to get to 50, 4-5 days faster doesn't imply "winning" unless you are racing for server 1st.

    Now I agree Familiars and Spell Research is PTW, since you can't get better just by playing the game.
  6. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Being able to reach something faster by paying money is pay to win, no matter how you try to spin it~
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  7. Xephane Active Member

    Familiars, yes. P2W. Spell research... Meh. You can get experts made, find masters, just GM cannot be found, which is somewhat P2W but the GM abilities are hardly better than master for the most part.
  8. Xephane Active Member

    "In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Some critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" or "p2w" games."

    Taken straight from wiki, paying to get something faster is not winning, P2W only applies to special content that cannot be earned through ordinary means of playing in the game. This applies to familiar cages, not leveling.
    Siren likes this.
  9. Xephane Active Member

    You can argue that perhaps because potions can only be bought that there is an ELEMENT of pay to win, but if you think about it, the potions don't make people level 51 or higher. They don't actually give a real advantage. Everybody hits the same goal and no matter how you play everybody will hit 50 at a different rate; therefore, potions are not actual pay to win. If anything, being able to buy items like huge bags and broker crates are, because those give you a definite advantage over other players, even though it's just bag space.
    Siren likes this.
  10. Uxtalzon Active Member

    Having fun, being slow, helping newbs kill roaming named or finish quests in lower zones. Should have picked an offensive class because being a solo paladin in this oppressive experience nerf is extremely slow.

    Currently frustrated at Foul Wind instance with Lord Nalin not spawning. I've only seen him once in like 30 instances. I can't remember the weapon he dropped for me on Live, but I used it for many levels. lol
  11. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    FFS, getting something faster and spending less time because you whipped out your credit card is pay-to-win.

    Just because you all want to sit here and white knight the idea of it "lol it doesn't give an advantage because i can get something in half the time by paying real life money"

    It is pay to win.


    I really don't care about what wiki says, pots are technically downloadable content that gives advantages over other players because being higher level makes you useful and gives access to more content.

    Just look at that other thread about the xp on the server, its obviously rigged so you buy pots. Meaning that you (the player) pays (money $$) so they can level (win).

    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  12. Ryuken Active Member

    No, it is not.

    That person does not get any advantage stat-wise over another person, he/she just reaches max-level a few days earlier.
    Xephane likes this.
  13. Xephane Active Member

    If people could pay money to get an expansion before everybody else on FG, THAT would be pay to win. There is still just as much content to do, regardless of what level you are, just because one person pays money doesn't mean they are winning, they accomplish a goal quicker, but still achieved no actual advantage over player #2. You can sit here and say "FFS" "white knight" and "Period" all you want, it doesn't make your point any stronger. Also, you don't care what wiki says? Wiki is the actual definition of it, so if you say it is incorrect then it just becomes opinion versus fact. Which will reality choose?

    Eventually we all get the same thing, regardless of who gets there first. Hitting max level first has never been a "win" because to most, it isn't a race, especially considering just HOW many times people have had to work for max level. In terms of a speedrun to max level for a World Record, pots would probably be considered cheating because it is a definite advantage acquired through no means in the game, just paid money. But that is a completely different scenario, and not what this conversation is about. Besides, how did this thread asking about how everybody is enjoying FG turn into a "P2W!!!" thread anyways? Let it go.
  14. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Being higher level means everything in this game, period. Yes i'm going to use it again in hopes maybe you can understand it this time. How can you really say that being higher level isn't an advantage? I can solo so much of the older content that other players have to group for not to mention I can have access to more content.

    If this was 2007 and eq2flames was still around, this server would be absolutely destroyed on the forums with the fact that people actually have to pay large amounts of money to hit max level because they nerfed xp so bad.

    This game has always been about killing the hardest mobs in game, and not being max level means that i can't.

    Now paying money to get something quicker is obviously an advantage, my goal is to hit level 50 yet I don't have endless amounts of time to pour into the game. So hey, I want to win; guess i can just whip out my credit card~
    Mizgamer62 likes this.
  15. Xephane Active Member

    Everybody can get max level, paying for it doesn't make any difference. Do YOU understand?


    I'm done talking about this.
  16. Glynt Active Member

    Thinking about rolling on the groupage strong? i.e are there plenty of groups. That is the single aspect of the game i miss on live servers its dead and the groups are very selective even though everyone is totally op.
    Xephane and ssiard like this.
  17. ssiard New Member

    I've seen a ton of groups up to my current level of 21 but those groups are mostly dungeon or HQ kills.
  18. Xephane Active Member

    Yes, very much so. There are groups going all day every day pretty much and they are plenty of fun. Come on and join in! :)
  19. Nagash Member

    the difficulty is very well tuned. i love the fact that i can die again, wonderful. thanks for bringing island of refuge and overlord back.
    Xephane likes this.
  20. Atan Well-Known Member

    Mostly it was a great experience and had tons of fun.

    I didn't care for the pay to win components. I would have enjoyed it MUCH more without them:
    1) Pay to win spell upgrades. I'm new returning and wasn't familiar with this mechanic so I foolishly got a Sage to level 20 before realizing that was a complete waste of time and reset my crafting and leveled up woodworking instead. The fact that these exist without the player made equivalents available is a real issue to me and leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. As a competitive player I really have no choice but to pay into this mechanic or accept I simple won't be able to compete until grandmaster crafting exists in the ruleset. This is a really crappy thing to do to players in my opinion, but I'm sure it helps DBG's balance sheet.

    2) Pay to win experience / vitality potions. I know this has been a thing for a while, but I think it really takes away from the game play. Not nearly as much as the spell upgrades, as this is purely a per player decision and I can choose to use or ignore them all I like and doesn't impact my personal gameplay other than watching my group mates outlevel me and have to find a new group as a result as I'm no longer minimum level to get xp.

    3) Pay to win mount. I don't believe it was an error for a +30 abmod mount to make it into the store and the difference of having this or not having it at lower levels is pretty huge.

    4) Pay to win familiars. Maybe there is a reason for familiars to exist at the starting expansion of a TLE server, but I can't really fathom one other than as a gratuitous cash grab.

    What I liked, plenty of people to play the game with. This alone was a huge bonus. No twinks destroying everything and running me over. A relatively equal playing ground (except pay to win abilities).

    I REALLY like that most of the heritage quest rewards have been re-itemized and for most of them there was just enough reason for any class to do them for the item alone, much less for the content or other rewards. I think the game would have been better if this was always the case. I didn't take my DWB's off until I got my Journeyman boots, and I think that was a very good thing.

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