Ever since LU20 I have been joking about the nerfage, sometimes seriously, but mostly in good fun. Despite the tough times that have come from the changes, I really do believe I have become a better player. Like some other posters in this thread, I used to rely mostly on my poison proc damage, just hanging back with the dress wearing finger wagglers. But now to maximize my damage output I'm not only throwing all of my bow CA's at the mobs, but running in for a backstab or two while I wait for the ranged arts to refresh. I'm forced to be much more attentive to the space around me, and I like that. The only thing I still have trouble with is pulling aggro off the warden.. he pops one heal on himself and I can't pull a mob off him no matter how hard I try. But I'm still working on that :smileytongue: I'm definitely looking forward to LU21, but, for all that I hated LU20, it really has helped me improve my knowledge of my class, and that's something I can't ever truly begrudge. :smileyvery-happy:
It's like this scene from House: Dr. Cameron: Why did you hire me? Dr. Gregory House: Does it matter? Dr. Cameron: Kind of hard to work for a guy who doesn't respect you. Dr. Gregory House: Why? Dr. Cameron: Is that rhetorical? Dr. Gregory House: No, it just seems that way because you can't think of an answer. Does it make a difference what I think? I'm a jerk. The only thing that matters is what you think. Can you do the job? Dr. Cameron: You hired a black guy because he had a juvenile record. Dr. Gregory House: No, it wasn't a racial thing. I didn't see a black guy, I just saw a doctor with a juvenile record. I hired Chase 'cause his dad made a phone call. And I hired you because you are extremely pretty. Dr. Cameron: You hired me to get into my pants? Dr. Gregory House: I can't believe that that would shock you. It's also not what I said. No, I hired you because you look good. It's like having a nice piece of art in the lobby. Dr. Cameron: I was at the top of my class! Dr. Gregory House: But not *the* top. Dr. Cameron: I did an internship at the Mayo Clinic! Dr. Gregory House: You were a very good applicant. Dr. Cameron: But not the best. Dr. Gregory House: Would that upset you, really, to think that you were hired for some genetic gift of beauty instead of some genetic gift of intelligence? Dr. Cameron: I worked very hard to get where I am! Dr. Gregory House: You didn't have to. People choose the paths that gain them the greatest rewards for the least amount of effort. That's a law of nature, and you defied it. That's why I hired you. You could've married rich, you could've been a model, you could've just shown up and people would've given you stuff - lots of stuff - but you didn't. You worked your stunning little [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off. Dr. Cameron: Am I supposed to be flattered? Dr. Gregory House: Gorgeous women do not go to medical school... unless they are as damaged as they are beautiful. Were you abused by a family member? Dr. Cameron: No! Dr. Gregory House: Sexually assaulted? Dr. Cameron: No! Dr. Gregory House: But you *are* damaged, aren't you? Which is why I am confused by the Rangers who claim they worked just as hard before the nerf for what should amount to the same damage (aggro willing).
You're confused because no one has made that claim. It is, however, an interesting spin on what some of us have said. If I didn't know better, I'd guess you were trolling. Oh, and you have ruined a perfectly good TV show. Thank you sir... May we have another!
And in case anyone forget, Gareorn has just reminded us that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-21-200604:12 PM
Precisely correct. Let me spell this out for Sony on the off chance a Dev reads and comprehends this: The Ranger class isn't balanced. Technically, it never was, but because of the proc bug, there was no need to consider it. Now that the ultra-nerf has been applied Ranger bow arts need to be rebalanced to the new state of the game.
LOL. You think: "Rangers who claim they worked just as hard before the nerf for what should amount to the same damage (aggro willing)." and your evidence is: "The things people do now to maximize their DPS, I was already doing." Reading comprehension > Sokolov Maybe, if your posts actually had something to do with the subject, or better yet, were more than sophmoric attempts at eliciting an emotional reaction by intentionally making false claims, people wouldn't think of you as a troll. Like anyone around here gives a darn whether or not you agree with them.:smileysurprised:
If you feel there is a misunderstanding, say so. You don't have to be rude and call someone a troll for it. Anyway, I don't think I am miscomprehending. I don't think it makes any logical sense for a pre-nerf Ranger to be doing the same things as a post-nerf Ranger (all else equal), simply because the extra damage resulting from the damage maximization should incurr excessive aggro for the pre-nerf Ranger. Granted differences in gear and playstyles BETWEEN rangers would change things, but I would think that there would have be sufficient deficiencies in gear for a pre-nerf Ranger NOT to draw inordinate amounts of aggro if they were doing the same things a post-nerf Ranger is likely to be doing. PS - sophmoric is not a word
Well, my problem is with the highlighted segment. You CANNOT do the same damage. Ever again. The game mechanics simply don't allow it. Perhaps I can shed some light... I'm a raid ranger. Typical fight for me was stand in what I believe peeps are referring to when they say 'sweet spot'. The location where Elude is available. Pre ultra-nerf (aka LU20): Start fight invis - Sniper Shot. Deagro - Surveillance. Stealthy Fire. Deagro - Elude. Longblade. Ranger's Blade. (Now that the heavy melee arts are out of the way...) Culling the weak, triple arrow, Devitalizing arrow, Precise shot, amazing shot, Confusion arrow. Stream of Arrows. 30 seconds later, when the timers have refreshed... What, the mob isn't dead yet?! Rinse and repeat. Post ultra-nerf : Same as above, skip the deagro steps. Before the ultra-nerf, I had to wait and hope the tank could build agro. I could pull *any* mob off of *any* tank, Paladin amends, guardian assuage, troub de-agro songs non-withstanding. Post nerf: I can't agro my way out of a wet paper bag. Sad that we get a de-agro hawk just when we don't need it. Pre-nerf my DPS average was 900+. Max I ever saw on an epic fight was 1220DPS, I was usually happy to break 1000. Post-nerf.... I'm lvl 70, 4 masters, all else AD3. 8 points in bow-criticals AA. I'm averaging 400 DPS.
I said that on purpose actually to indicate that it doesn't make sense. What I meant is actually what you said in relation to having to hold back pre-nerf but not post nerf. In this you woul dhave to hold back to do the same damage you can now only achieve by doing a lot. So how realistic is it then that a pre-nerf ranger was doing "the same things" to maximize damage? Sorry for the confusion! =) Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-21-200606:02 PM
its realistic if the pre-nerf ranger was grouping with and raiding with a Pally with amends adept III. I was able to go all out, all day every day (long as i de-agro'd a bit along the way) and maximise my damage Pre LU21. The same tactics now just gave me results that that make me feel ike my Guardian does more damage.
Well in response to the OP I would have to say yes I am a better player since #20. I'm now a lot less lazy about how I obtain DPS - I concentrate on the sweet spot now as much as I did pre LU13, take more care with debuffing before hitting the big shots(and being aware of what group / raid debuffs are on), concentrate more on the order I use my shots in with respect to re-use timers and lots more small things that all add up to being a better player. I fell more involved in Mirdo again but wasn't unhappy before - most of my toons are DPS based (except the illusionist) and watching the big numbers fly keeps me as happy as having an involved and complex toon to play - I'm easily pleased I guess Mirdo.
I said that on purpose actually to indicate that it doesn't make sense. What I meant is actually what you said in relation to having to hold back pre-nerf but not post nerf. In this you woul dhave to hold back to do the same damage you can now only achieve by doing a lot. So how realistic is it then that a pre-nerf ranger was doing "the same things" to maximize damage? Sorry for the confusion! =) Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-21-200606:02 PM I don't know about working as hard as I did. I think I work harder. I haven't really changed my playstyle though. Like the above... I do everything I always did, except now I don't have to deagro. Now I don't have to pace my shots, though I'm still doing the same things. Like the above, I could take agro from any fighter (though one I had to really work for), now I can't. I'm still doing the same things to maximize though, because my playstyle hasn't change, just the amount of damage I end up with. Message Edited by Cronon on 03-22-200612:58 PM Message Edited by Cronon on 03-22-200612:58 PM
Yes, it is. It's misspelled (s/b 'sophomoric'), but it's a word, and I'm sure you know that. I've stayed out of this petty bickering so far - you're both / all being pretty silly and it's not worth the time to participate - but quit trying to play the hyper-intellectual card around here, Sokolov. You're not impressing anyone - we can all use big words if we want, and your overwritten posts tend to obfuscate your meaning rather than clarifying it. (And yes, "overwritten" is a word: "To write about in an artificial or an excessively elaborate, wordy style.") But if you want to play that game, I'm up for it. Keep your dictionary handy.
What big word have I used lately? Anyway, I wasn't attempting to "play the hyper-intellectual card." I just didn't think what some people were saying here made any logical sense. Granted there are situations which can expand the aggro boundary, but unless you only group with the same people all the time, that is unlikely to be the typical experience, nor will it be the typical experience of most rangers. I also don't see why people are so hostile when we are just discussing something. If you disagree with me, disagree, don't have to start calling names and attacking people's characters. Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-22-200611:34 AM
I think that's a better way of putting it. My thing is that with the recast timers and such, IF you were going to go in and melee, but you had to hold back, and your bow CA popped, would you go in anyway? Or just shoot the bow CA?
Aye I've always used the same style of play. I returned to the game late (just this past december) and without reading anything into any of the classes I said "I want to be an Iksar Ranger", and thus I am. I didn't make a ranger expecting to be number 1 "L337" damage. I made it because it sounded fun, and indeed it is. I admit it was fun when I was doing the SBH HQ and my friend was there and I said "watch this", pointed to an owlbear and killed it with just triple fire before it moved 3 steps towards me. But am I going to complain because it's not doable anymore? Nope. What I just stated might be fun for a while, but eventually it gets old. Is it *really* that fun to single shot most things? Nope, no challenge in it. I like challenge. That's why I play an MMO. To the people that are crying because a ranger isn't easy mode anymore... if you want the game handed to you, go buy an RPG for a console and gameshark it, or magic up your own eq2 server. Truely most of the people crying have to be the uber-gamer bandwagoners who wanted to flex thier e-peens w/ top DPS 24/7. If your fun is by having to prove your dominance over others in such a manner then it's nothing wrong with the game, it's wrong w/ your mind. People that need to complain for the sake of complaining or about every tiny thing not going *your* way. /quit now, cancel your accounts and leave the game to the real players. Oh yeah, elitist [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s that screen groups by dps, well those people know where they can shove it. Reminds me of the guy who rejected my guildy (a conjuror) from a raid saying he wasn't dps. Then later telling me it was because they already had 2 conjurors. He kept searching for dps for that raid for a couple hours, and of course couldn't answer me when I asked if having 2 conjurors already meant the 3rd one's spells wouldn't do any damage. /shrug Honestly, YOU have the choice in what class/race you are and even if you play this game at all. If you don't like it, invoke the power of choice and stop. /rant off; /loathing off; /boredom on I love being a ranger, and I'm not letting a single patch change that fact. Message Edited by Zhek on 03-22-200606:59 PM
And here's something I didn't think of until I read another post in here just now. But at my ranger's level I found that my DPS didn't change much whether I went into melee or not, so I never did anymore after I figured this out. (Additionally, even my zerker could do significant dps at range pre-LU13 due to multiple stacking proc buffs/weapon imbued procs.)
I'm not calling names or attacking anyone. (I can't attack your character, we're not on PvP! /ba-doom tisssh! ) I just made an observation about the way you write your posts. I neither agree nor disagree, b/c I don't really see any of you making any particular point. The only thing I responded to was your PS about "sophmoric" (sic) not being a word.
It's my opinion that using my melee arts IS my way of holding back. Sure they are fast, but they just don't do the same level of damage as the arrow shots. I would probably go in and let more of the CA's pop, back out and start another run of CA's. /shrug I don't know if it's the best way. I've never bothered to break it down that much. At some point, even for me, it becomes to much like work to analyze that much. A "probably" unrelated anecdote. Everyone who knows me knows I like to parse. I do it for my own feedback more than "I got higher than you". If someone is hitting harder than me, I want to figure out why. Is it me not fulfilling my potential? Anyway, I keep a private channel up where I feed my parses so they aren't in raid/group/guild chat. Others have joined that channel to see where they sit. Many of them stay in the channel even when we aren't grouped and I forget that alot. Last night, for fun, I made a Brigand, named with a variation of my main's name. Here I am, level 4 or 5, parsing a big 8 dps, when I notice my channel light is lit up. I'd already looked at my last parse, so obviously someone said something in the chat. So I take a look and it's one of my main's guildmates chuckling. "Way to get that DPS. You should raid with us, probably beat Narsan." We all got a laugh at that.
