To the people saying they already used to maximize damage - did you pull aggro all the time? In other words, I contend that you CANNOT be doing the same thing now as you used to and claim you were maximizing - you would have been tanking all the time.
Yes. I use all my abilities now, switch stances in fights, switch weapons, look fer pathing quirks to get a few more shots off on incoming, melee alot more, and care about my debuffs and buffs. I f rangers were golfers all we needed before was a driver and a putter, as stream of arrows put us "on the green" everytime. Now I use every club in my bag , CA's , to try and acomplish less than what I did before. It can be frustrating ........ It can be fun ..... As our guilds main raid tanks sig has said from day one, " Play and enjoy today for tommorow they nerf "
Well, if finding aggro management much easier since LU20 makes me a better Ranger, then yes, I guess I am a better Ranger. I doubt that's what Jay meant in the OP. Yes, I did get aggro once in a while before LU20. Aggro management was much more difficult before, but that doesn't mean I wasn't maximizing my DPS. I'm one of those always pushing the aggro envelope (or was anyway). I don't know how anyone could claim to be maximizing their DPS if they didn't push that envelope. And, my DPS is how I held aggro on the rare occassions I found myself tanking.
I could usually go full-bore as a Ranger (pre-LU20) because I usually grouped with a Pally with high quality amends. I'd like to know how those people who play with good players and are claiming to be able to keep up with a good assassin do it. I just dont' see it, but I've seen several claims for it.
I've noticed that my bow isn't as godly as it used to be, sure, but I didn't play the game to be godly. I played to be an archer, and to do decient DPS. Yes, wizards and conjurors out-DPS me... That's fine. I'm having fun. I run up to DoT, toss of the stealth attack, fire Point Blank Shot, pop back for Culling the Weak, Debilitating arrow, rush up for Cheap Shot... it's busy, and it's fun. Since it's fun, I keep playing my ranger... which means I gain exp and will level and get new stuff.... rather than starting over on the newbie isle because the wizards / conjurors out-DPS me. My I don't have to be on the top of the parser to have fun; i'm bigger than that.
Says who, you? A paladins amends is a wonderful thing, as is a troubadors hate reducer song. The combination of those two allowed and a master hate reducer from the ranger allowed rangers to go all out and NOT get aggro. Dont mistake players who use all their abilities with someone simply spamming damage arts.
Yep, says me. Just a matter of logic really. "Dont mistake players who use all their abilities with someone simply spamming damage arts." <- but I thought rangers only had damage (i.e. dps only, no utility), if they arent spamming damage arts, they must not be doing anything! /sarcasm Anyway, logically, if a class' damage is nerfed, there must be a difference between the amount of work the player has to do to reach the pre-nerf non-aggro position versus the post-nerf non-aggro position, that's all I am saying. Certainly it is true that combinations of specific abilities will allow this position to shift, but those conditions are understood to exist but not constant. Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-19-200610:06 PM
This is all fine and dandy but I didn't sign up as a Ranger to use melee skills. If I wanted to use more melee skills than ranged I would have made a Brigand, Swashbuckler or an Assassin. I was happy when melee skills were pretty much used for soloing or when you wanted to save arrows. I want to be ranged DPS without relying on melee skills (in raids). Yes Rangers needed toning down but the idiotic devs haven't a scooby how their game works and hence a lot of dissatisfied customers. OK, a few of you are harping on about adapting, blah blah blah. I've already adapted twice with this class and I'm getting fed up just because there are few creative thinkers on the development team. Ranger has miniscule utility therefore needs to be premiere dps along with Assassins. End of story. The verbal diarrhoea delivered to the Ranger community is a disingeneous attempt to hide massive deficiencies in the design and analysis skills of the development team, and worse a true lack of understanding of how the players actually play the game. Message Edited by ReynardTheFox on 03-20-200612:04 PM Message Edited by ReynardTheFox on 03-20-200612:05 PM
I used to actually say that... Only one tank I ever played with could keep agro from me and only if I didn't try 110%. He used to say I made him a better tank for it and that all tanks should group a week with a good Ranger just for the training. He's moved on to other pastures now, though. I used every CA at my disposal last night and the guild assassin still got me in DPS by 200. I did have fun working for it though. Worse part of it was when I made a comment about the DPS disparity in the DPS Channel I keep (to keep it out of the raid channel) one of the casters said "cry a little". I really don't get some people. Anyway, I can't say that it has made me a better player. Like someone posted above, I was already doing what I can to maxamize my DPS. I've experimented with the poisons and worked out a flow to get the best possible DPS possible for me. I've still had a lot of fun though. Don't think of this as a negative post. On the contrary, I think, in general, the Ranger community does it's best and has the most fun when we rise to the challenges given to us. It's in our nature. We have certainly been giving challenges since the day of launch. Those who don't rise to the challenge, those who give up, probably shouldn't have been playing a Ranger in the first place. Our path is not the easy one. Our path is not bashing mobs or wiggling our fingers. Our path is moving in and out of combat, working to do the most damage as fast as we can, without turning the mob to us. Our path is a walk of pride, not a walk of shame. Hold your heads high, brothers and sisters. We are the few and the proud. **was that to over-the-top?
It's been said before and I'll say it again. You may not have signed up for it, but that is how the Ranger is played. We range and we use melee. If you don't use all of your abilities, you are only half of a player and don't deserve to comment on any nerf. Learn to the play the class as it was built. You got a respite during LU13-LU20 to be lazy and toss arrows from afar. What were you doing before LU13? Message Edited by Cronon on 03-20-200608:01 AM
I am a raid Ranger, and raiding was anything but just tossing arrows. You had to manage your ranged skills correctly to avoid pulling aggro and wiping the raid. Come back and talk here when you've gone beyond Borxx.
Unless this guy is like 5 levels above you, the correct response is "/duel." They may be able to out-DPS me, but they still can't kill me.:smileytongue:
I too am a raid Ranger, Fox, and I agree it is about alot more than flinging arrows. BUT, to me that more is called jousting. I wrote my guild's "How to joust" thread. T6, and heil even T5 had some nasty AoEers. Remember Tremblar? I would come out of there with 100% armor barring any wipes (btw the mob ate armor with its AoE) And I have ALWAYS used 100% of my skills, melee included, in almost every fight unless I felt like being lazy. There was and is alot more DPS to be had by wailing out all your melee arts when your Ranged are all down. And by managing de-aggro appropriately (yes the Hawk helps with that now on raids) and being in a aggro reducing group set up, I do the same amount of work now as I did pre LU20 to maximise my output. Granted, I did draw aggro now and then pre-LU, but now the way things are, I just die somewhere in the top four or five if the tank goes down due to my position on the hate list. I get super excited if I am the first to die after the tank LOL. I guess what I'm saying is no, it hasnt really made me a better player, because I always played the joust game. I have always enjoyed getting up close and personal for a little wet work. Must be that little bit of Assassin in me..... Message Edited by Dirtgirl on 03-20-200610:33 AM
Is this really going to come down to credentials? Just because you got passed an Epic mob doesn't mean you were doing your job. It means the raid was. You are one little spec of an entire raid force. I'm a raid ranger too. Been doing it for quite some time now. Dirt is right about the joust, but even when I don't have to joust due to AE, I try to get in and do some melee. If you aren't, you aren't bringing your full game to the raid and you are riding the coattails of those that are. Any player in a raid not using his abilities to their fullest is not doing right by their raid team. I stand by what I said earlier. You don't have to take offense and you don't have to agree. You do have to play the Ranger how SOE defines the class, not by your expectations. Then again, you don't have to play at all. It's really your choice. The Ranger isn't completely about range and you are lying to yourself if you think it is. Doesn't really matter what you signed up for, which was my original point. Personally, I like the complexity that role offers. I don't just toss arrows or manage agro. I use every skill I have to make the enemy go down as fast as possible. You have to get in to use your evade anyway (you do use evade?). You might as well take a few punches while you are there.
2 very good points and exactly why my Ranger is shelved 15% shy of 60. They changed the class. There are 3 ways to deal with that. Reroll, Rant or Adapt. I chose reroll... for the 2nd time. My Ranger was the character I switched too when changes were made to Zerkers abot 2 months after the game started that I didnt like. Rather than complain I found a class that did what I was after and switched. I busted [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to catch back up to my friends. That char btw is stil at lvl 26 where I left him, the Ranger likely wont ever make 60. I rerolled a Guard and am now lvl 57, 3 weeks of hardcore single minded grinding have gotten him from 25-57 to where I can almost group with my friends again. I am sure when they change Guardians in a way I dont like I will switch to something else, I have a host of other chars including one of each kind of tank, couple of healers and another scout. I'll survive.
Whatever makes you happy Sirlutt. The game is about having fun, not crying about losing overpowered dps. I'm not a band-wagon ranger either so that's just my own opinion. I have a 47 bruiser and 46 sk that I can play too but I love the ranger class just like alot of others still do. Rangers Rule!
One of my level 70 caster (can't remember exactly which he is) guildies owned a level 70 ranger repeatedly the other day Message Edited by Sokolov on 03-20-200610:24 AM
Interesting responses. Good to hear that some of you weren't resting on the crutch that our proc damage provided, I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I was. I've never been a "110%" kind of player; I don't min-max, I don't swap out four different kinds of gear depending on the situation, etc. You know this; I'm basically your everyday ranger with slightly-above-average equipment. So I didn't squeeze our four million DPS when we were overpowered (and yes, we were overpowered); I did use my melee arts but I didn't zero in and perform the complicated, high-speed routine that I do now to eke out some respectable DPS. Visited PoA this past weekend with one of our MTs who has recently started parsing, and I wasn't really happy with the situation. But I was level 64 at the time and most everything above the first floor was orange, so I missed / parried / deflected a hell of a lot. Lame, but oh well, hopefully at 70 I'll be trading places with the guild wizard. Too bad every thread that mentions the LU ends up being a ground for people b!tching at each other, but I guess that's the way it's gonna be here for a while.
I dont think i have become a better player after LU20, but i have to admit that i use far more spells than i used to do, like rangers blade. Anyway, my alchy finally reached 66, so i just made some legendary hemotoxin (great proc and dot) and legendary tactic (increased crit chance) and i will use gaige as a support. I will do some parsing tonight if i can find a good group, and will do some parsing after LU21. If i still cant compete with other DPS classes, i must encourage the devs once again to have a look at our class.
Man....I wrote a reply to this thread and my computer lost it to "cannot find page". It was soo funny...I made jokes about myself LU20 I had partial nudity in there, some adult references to steam ships in Cleveland, a quote from Blackguard where he calls me the orneriest ranger he ever met....there was a section with games and also a review of the new Dr. Who television show on sci-fi channel.... It was sooo cool....I just cant find it in myself to rewrite it Saihung
