Yep. It's been stated time and again that Dozekar is the father and the mother has never been mentioned.
I'm curious about what lore problems the timeline diversion has created? Granted, you don't have access to the entire big picture, but I'm not aware of any major, or even minor, lore problems such a split has created. If there are some we'd like to clear them up if possible. With two simultaneous games in production sharing the same world the split needed to occur to allow both projects to evolve on their own with their storylines and world events. This allows us to go down roads that EQLive doesn't have to follow as well as let EQLive evolve however they like without feeling contrained to leave certain things alone because EQ2 has stated what has happened in the future. If EQLive never wants the War of the Fay to occur they don't have to. They don't feel constrained to have to play that out in the future. If EQLive makes an expansion or event that destroys Lucan or the Bayle blood line we don't have to come up with a retroactive reason why they still appear in the future of Norrath. I believe we also picked a diversion point that makes pretty good sense. If Druzzil Ro decides to roll back time in the very center of the Plane of Time itself it should cause certain unforseen events to occur.
Well one thing you do have to admit Jindrack is that when any new EverQuest game comes out that game must develope its own lore within the EverQuest realm. That lore being along the lines of a story arc as well as having conflicting information in order to be a proper game. :smileywink: *Atleast thats my take on it*
Yeah but there lies the problem for this one occasion. EQlive introduced a series of events who's lore stated that Mayong Mistmoore moved to his new residence below Nektulos Forest over 1000 years ago, and as part of that expansion pack in Everquest, he became a God when players finally defeated him. This expansion pack was released, and there-for happens, After the 500 year time split takes place. It's my oppinion that just because it says his plan started a thousand years ago, doesn't mean it's suppose to apply to EQ2, especially since it didn't happen untill after EQ2 started.
So where are all of the specifics Jindtrack asked for? I figured people would be jumping all over this thread with proven conflicts the way people around here talk.
I think what Cusashorn is saying is that although the EQLive expansion came out after EQ2 was released, the back story line for that expansion happens before the events of EQ2 happen, and before the time split; therefore, (supposedly) recquiring that back story line be incorporated as a part of EQ2's background. I certainly don't see this as a major prblem, but what will happen when the next generation of EQ games comes out (if they ever do)? There will have to be some other mechanism that allows for their developers to remain unfettered by the events of the previous games etc. What we are talking about is the balancing of the practical design needs of each game with the integretiy and solidarity of Norrath as a fantasy millieu, and of players to suspend disbelief and 'buy in', (so to speak), to the expalnations as to exactly why one game is following a different time-line than the other. From a personal point of view, I think the mechanism chosen stretches believability, though does not necessarily break it. And in truth, I do not really see how some sort of 'plot device' could have been avoided, and still have kept the two games independant. The one chosen is as good as any I suppose. /shrugs But that's just my own opinion, and I am sure the vast majority of players may disgaree. Indeed, probably the vast majority of players don't really care one way or the other, or are even aware of the time divergence.
There's ways to rationalize it so that it both did and didn't happen, got interrupted by the Rending, etc, etc. There's no way for us to know until they release an expansion that deals with Mayong. If it turns out to create some sort of weird time paradox in a situation like this, then we'll rationalize it as some sort of protonic megaflux in the temporal flow. Trust me, I've seen Trekkies do it Message Edited by SageGaspar on 06-01-2006 09:16 PM
Actually, I DONT want it incorporated into EQ2's timeline. We've barely had much interaction with Mayong as a vampire in EQlive. Let him stay a vampire, and not have any goals to try to become a god. Find something else to do. I'd be cool with them introducing him into EQ2 with new goals that aren't related to EQlive. Just not the whole "Kill me so I can become a god" thing.
Uh, she's not saying you do, Cusa, she's saying that in the present scenerio, the conflict that arises from the "time split" is as she layed it out, she was essentially paraphrasing, and supporting your position: According to an expansion that came out after the time split, plans that had been worked upon since before the time split finally come to fruition, resulting in this problem: Which do we follow? The story written for the design of an expansion, or the lore we have that predates (at least for us) the expansion? Now here's the important part: We do not know. Why? Because, with the scenario they set up, the developers have the choice to go either way, or even some third option that some of us might not have even considered yet. We will only know for certain when we are told. Until then, this whole argument is pointless. The devs even have the power to go totally off their rocker and do something totally different (Gates of Discord/Omens of War style). Squabbling over whether Mayong has become a god or not is simply a waste of time and board space. That being said, because we DO NOT know if the devs have chosen to make Mayong a god, I will not be adding him to any of my own lists until I know for a fact.
Cusa, that is what I was trying to say, albeit somewhat clumsily. When you start getting into time issues, you are just asking for paradoxes. What other type of 'plot mechanism', (could've, would've, should've), been used to get a separation of the two games is just Monday morning quarterbacking; (and I admit to being as guilty as any in that regard). It HAD to be done--(somehow). I may not be fully satisfied with the way it was decided to do it, but I doubt I could have done any better; (probably a lot worse) That being said, I know that I, for one, wanted the Norrath of EQ2 to be the SAME Norrath I left; (just 500 years later). I was not really expecting, nor am fully satisfied with an alternative, parallel Norrath (500 years later). However, what's done is done, and I will have to adjust. But how many times can the history of Norrath be split before it just does not hold any credibility any longer? For me, (personally), the answer is ZERO more times. Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on 06-02-2006 12:02 AM
I'm of the train of thought, that Mayong may have become a deity, but without in-game evidence (or out-of-game dev confirmation) it's impossible to definitively say. The whole time-line split does make it difficult to say what has happened since the split though, as anything that occured in EQLive post-split may have happened in the post-split. The Words of Zeb states how at first the timelines differed a little at first and only later started to really diverge. The thing is, there's no point of reference on when the more extreme divergence occurred or to know what those little differences were early on. If a post-PoP event in EQLive was in no significant way the effect of the events that occurred in or because of PoP, then it seems more likely to have occurred but not assuredly so. I tend to believe the Omens of War/Gates of Discord event happened due to some mention of the closing of the gate to Discord, but I am, unfortunatly, not familiar enough with those expansions to know what the "end-game" event in those expansions were. As for the other EQ expansions go, /shrug, until I'm told by a dev or see/hear evidence in-game that they happened, I'll assume they didn't.
Wow.... Koma I am so proud of you! What a great thread! Thanks to all for all the great diety info... and as a bonus now Koma and I have the evidence we need to prove that Vennom really ISN'T a god!
We DON'T KNOW that, and YOU don't know that. IF he's a god then it already happened in the eq2 line, we just don't know about it. "They wont. I stand firm and confidant that Sony would never break the foundation lore behind EQ2 like that." about the gods reminds me exactly of this event. You didn't know, and we didn't know, only the devs did, but you continued to tell us and fight about what was an opinion. The quote up top, is not stated as on opinion. anyway, in light of this social retardation, my OPINION, is that it's very possible for Mayong to be a god, DESPITE what anyone that's NOT a dev might insist is the 100% absolute truth. What I *really* want to know though is how the choices of gods will be layed out? Will everyone get to choose every god or will there be restrictions on race/class/city like in EQ?
Well Ol Mistmoore was good almost mythical figure that was almost a god anyway in eqlive. Not up on lore made in last few years but He was a Figure that almost no one had ever seen since the zone was bugged and the only way he could spawn was if a Gm agreed to playing him. If you looked at all the factions that increased or decreased around Norrath you see that he was as powerful as the whole Ring of Scale faction. He has no origin story. Ultra powerful in the pre Kunark era. He also dropped one of the most unique items of the time. The Claw of Veeshen which granted the holder the title OF THE CLAW to their name back in the pre kunark era. This item was 1 to the server and was more rare that the rubacite armor or the moss twig. No story as told how he got this more holy of Wyrmqueen artifacts. on GODs I worry about will it be even this time on the deities. the Wyrmqueen(Veeshen) could only be followed by bards and was ignored out side of a human racial armor and a totum. And every bard quest was kill all the dragons to get... I was a RolePlayer Bard of Veeshen ... the Epic was not even an option. the Imbue was not a spell but harvestible shards from a high end zone needing a high lvl potter to bake into a stone that I could then craft into low end armor using highest lvl human smithing. Added 3 years later Prexus - only erutites could follow and again other then at character creation this meant nothing and would hurt you later for player made gear added 2 years later Sol Ro no Clerics they had to add a spell to int casters to imbue holy items. added 2 years later BTW how can DoF be all sand if it was a forest that was turned into a Desert by a God curse? EQ1 failed to address short comings of the Deity system and openly ignored the players on conserns on deities. Eq2 better be complete on this issue this time I dont care to wait 3 years for a Bone like EQ1.
Unlike the other stuff the Gods did, the Elddar forest was destroyed my a "Natural cuase." Solasek raised a set of Mts that inturn changed the weather system and that in turn made the forest dry up. Just to take some real world examples there are several deserts in the world with a Mt range next too it. If the Mts are too high the moisture gets released before the clouds can go over the Mts hence leavin the other side dry.
good point Ice. But Earth aka mountians was the realm of Brell and Rathe council. Ro was Fire which would have meant that whole mountian range from Innie swamp to highpass was made by S Ro with volcanos followers Earth: rathe council deity Brell made Roeli#### , Gnolls, Dwarves Gnomes and Ratonga, racial Air: Xegony deity Veeshen(sky) made dragons (xegony is credited with Griffons and Pegasus) racial plus bards water: prexes 3 sub deities E'ci Povar ##### made kedge racial plus erudites and sailors Fire : RO and sub deity S RO cursed Tunare's Elves Wizards and npc priests All were the neutral deities and the main of the elementals answered to Nameless The rest of the deities were love peace disease honor war plague nightmares hate fear...... lesser gods and demi gods
Just to take some real world examples there are several deserts in the world with a Mt range next too it. If the Mts are too high the moisture gets released before the clouds can go over the Mts hence leavin the other side dry. I live in Yuma, Arizona. The temperature today was 113 degrees; [but it's a dry heat]. Yeah, right; it will get over 115 next month, it always does.
The effect described is what is called a "rain shadow." There are two major (three in a few places) areas on the western side of the continental United States that are great examples of this phenomenon. The first occurs with the coastal ranges (these ranges criss cross back and forth, sometimes forming one range, sometimes forming two). As cool, moisture laden air comes off the ocean, it's pushed up the western face of the coastal range, as it rises, it gets cooler, and more dense, causing it to rain. Once over the peaks, it can fall back down, but there isn't as large a chance for rain, since it got rid of a lot of moisture coming over the hills. One of the best examples is with the Sierra Nevada range, the whole central valley of California is irrigated with water that falls from the clouds (air), as they try to get over the Sierra Nevada range, so that there is almost no moisture left by the time it gets to Nevada, knock down the Sierra Nevadas, and you'd have plains from Bakersfield CA, all the way to the foothills of the Rockies. /ends earth science lesson I mean, err, the Serpent Spine didn't seem volcanic, as there were massive tunnels in them made by the Rujarkian goblin tribes, and the orcs that came along later. Edited for grammer errors, I know I didn't get all of them. Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on 06-03-2006 09:30 PM
You guys are thinking to linear concerning EQ qnd EQ2. Once the EQ2 universe was created, we became a seperate universe. Nothing that happens in EQL will have any effect on us, and nothing that they add to EQ2 will have any effect on THAT game. We are simply a different dimension that had a common start...
