This is the one thing I really don't like about EQ2's PVP. Fighters and Priests can literally not kill one another. At least in WoW a tactic is to either CC a healer or zerg him and it works. Here it doesn't always work unless you're blowing some major cooldowns. But max gear vs max gear makes for some long almost never ending fights. I think a good fix would be for PVP to have a minimum amount of damage each spell and combat art will always at least do (cannot be increased by stats, and wards still stop it as normal). This way your PVP gear is still useful, as it prevents the frontload damage, but it won't mitigate a 4 digit damage spell to the single digits. This way everyone gets their cake and can eat it too. High gear vs High gear will be about skill and High gear vs low gear will still see low gear getting gibbed as they already are.
IMO critical mitigation should mitigate critical heals as well. This could be done by adding an uncurable debuff with say 5 second duration at every PvP action that would in PvE generate hate. This debuff would set the number of the opponents critical mitigation as a value that would mitigate the heal crits just the same as you'd mitigate damage crits. If stacked (by same person or several people), the average value of all the parties crit mit would be used. So if one person is hitting and has 100% crit mit and the other hits and has 0% crit mit, then the average is 50% so all heal crits would be reduced by 50%. This is really needed to balance healing classes.
Tariuss@Antonia Bayle wrote: Shivv is ****! I watch Hiphoppapotamus take it him out without even losing 10% health or mana.
People need to also realize it's not always the class, it's the player. Take Vymm, he's easily the nastiest Assassin in BG's, but that doesn't mean Assassins should be nerfed. For every Vymm I come upon, I destroy 5-10 under geared Assassins. Same goes for most classes, including Monks, Crusaders, etc. So far there are only 2 classes that seem a tad OP'd right now, and that's Zerkers and Wardens. I don't think they need massive nerfs as really under-geared players are still a breeze to smoke, I just don't think any class should be able to solo 12+ people and not take a dent to their health.
There most certainly is a need for nerfs on heals. Any geared class that can heal themselves can fight forver with another class that can also heal itself. Any combination from these classes will end in an endless fight 1on1: warden, fury, templar, inquisitor, defiler, mystic, paladin, shadowknight, berserker, necromancer (bruiser?, monk?). So out of 24 classes, you have 12 that can't kill eachother if fully geared in PvP/BG gear. That is not ok by any standard.
I love how people occasionally pop up asking for a healer nerf or suggesting healers are OP. You realize that if healers weren't among some of the harder classes to kill it would completely defeat the purpose of playing one, right? Anyway, there is nothing special about healers when it comes to BGs. They're casters just like mages and can be messed up by stuns, stifles, and knockbacks. If you run around mashing CAs randomy in BGs then yeah, you're gonna totally fail at killing a healer who is less than stupid. And even IF you do play it right you may have a hard time versus a smart healer because they'll be sporting a full pack of signets and freedom of mind potions to get around your control effects. The bottom line is, 1.) don't play your class like a noob and 2.) never underestimate how well prepared some of your opponents in BGs might be.
Umm... So what are the 2 classes I go in to BGs? Necromancer and Warden. Both heal way too much for the damage being dealt to them. So umm yea... Nerf heals in '10.
StaticLex wrote: healers are currently 100% determining most group v group combat successes. Whens the last time you heard someone complain their group didn't get a healer in gears and the other teams did and that being the most important factor of the match? Every day? Gameplay is too overcentralized around healing now over other stats... Yet ppl keep trying to throw out that healing weaknesses are somehow brought out in group combat when they clearly only gain a comparative advantage over other classes, not a weakness. Good healers are not only unkillable in solo combat (good ones routinely take on entire groups of dps or more), they also add the highest contributive benefits to groups making them even stronger comparatively over other classes from solo combat. Saying they have a weakness against cc if they don't prepare isn't really a weakness that has the capacity to make it reasonable that an equally skilled player can get an advantage... And saying they have a "weakness" in 6 v 1 combat, (any class should be weak if 6 players are taking on 1 lol. Why should that 1 have a massive intrinsic advantage?) especially when if you take into consideration the healer having a group (assuming they just don't stand idle to watch the healer get dpsd) isn't really viable either.
Sapphyra wrote: And this is different from PVE how? In fact, this is different from RPGs since the beginning of time, how? If you have a problem with the way healing has often been a major aspect of any RPG game since the days of pen and paper versions I really don't know what to tell you. Maybe go try larping or something..? heh As for the rest of your post I guess I don't understand what you're getting at. Healers heal, they certainly don't DPS like scouts and they definitely don't mitiagte/avoid or taunt like fighters. If that's not enough of a seperation of role for you, like I said, I really don't know what to tell you.
Heals are pretty rediculous right now and I dont just mean healers, but every heal proc/poison/ward proc/%heals from fighters, mages and scouts as well.
When you are going against players that know how to buff and coordinate control effects and such... Sometimes it feels that it goes too fast heh.
Crismorn wrote: Indeed, Asking for buffs, Spacing out CC effects, Assisting my mit debuffers and generally sticking around players that I know are good and assisting them = hax The only two classes I find OP are SKs and Wardens and perhaps Bruisers. You can stop almost any class from healing by control effects except that SKs always seem to have Death March or the Crusader AA up and wardens... I probably just hate them because I can't dispel and HoTs let them survive mostly anything I can throw at them. I actually inspected a warden that finally appeared on my team after outhealing me 3 games in a row with 0 deaths and I was really suprised they had more mitigation than I had even with my Tier 3 +7% mitigation shoulders along with 600 toughness and full crit mit addorns... And about 50% avoidance to boot.
I don't know why warden of all healers would seem OP. I couldn't imagine dying to a fighter with any of the healer classes.
A lot of "God Mode" comes down to gear choice and how much T9 has changed when it comes to survivability in PvP. Damage has been reduced by PvP crit mit as it did in TSO but add in toughness, the massive jump in health, many different heal and ward procs about then you look at new AAs and its easy to see how damage has went way down. While Potency and Crit bonus will have improved both damage and heals only damage is being reduced even further in PvP combat. Smart play and luck can end a fight quickly but odds are if the other player also plays smart and can recover it will be a long fight.
StaticLex wrote: It's not that they can take on any fighter and survive, it's that a well geared one can take on any fighter and 5 or more of his friends and survive. Why are they so much stronger? Wardens strong point, healing AOE's, really comes into play in BG's. While healing the relic, every one of your heals is effective, where a Cleric has to hope the tank is holding the relic so he can get hit in order to use half their heals. I'm not sure how wards work with the relic, but they don't seem nearly as effective either. In Ganak, you have group immunity to one of the more common control effects (root), and temporary immunities to stun along with group aoe block which makes a "grab'n go" of the flag very easy to do, and if the Warden gets it, you have to hope there aren't a lot of fighters to change your target otherwise he can pretty much live all day. Why? Extremely fast casting, power effecient heals combined with the mythical effect (while nerfed, still VERY powerful combined with just a few power proc items). In Den, you're more of a pest problem than anything else. Combined with a Zerker, that duo can disrupt the flow at any flag they choose and distract large portions of a raid while the rest of their raid dominates. I know that's a strategy flaw that can easily be avoided with a pre-formed group, but most Den are largely pug who don't read raid chat to ignore the Wardens.
Dorsan@Nagafen wrote: I've yet to find a Necro I couldn't kill with my Warlock lol. There is no comparison between Necros and real healers. They do fall in line with the other classes who heal themselves more than they probably should (Zerkers, Crusaders, etc), but not healers. On a different note, can SOE look into the aoe dispel crusaders have? Am I the only one who thinks that's a HUGE advantage? It would be one thing if it took away one thing, but to strip a large portion of buffs from everyone in the area is pretty OP'd.
Luceus@Everfrost wrote: This so needs to happen. Without even having to get into the "nerf SKs cause their DPS AND survivability AND healing is way too high" arguement, the AOE dispel thing is ridiculous. Assuming class "roles" still mattered, the ONLY class that should get a powerful dispell is enchanters. Period. And, oh look, all they get is a single target dispel on a medium recast. And I'm quite agreed that you can't nerf a class because of well-geared and well-skilled players that make it look too easy; however if most non-geared and non-skilled members of OP Class X can ususally beat or give most other classes a run for their money when the other classes are well-geared and played by well-skillled players, that's a problem. I mean... common sense here: Tanks are... tanks. If they were supposed to DPS like a scout, they shouldn't be able to wear plate and have all of the increased survivability abilities. It's because scouts are more vulnerable that they do more DPS. Then you have cloth wearers which should, in theory, be even more powerful because they're even easier to kill and whose abilities have longer cast times--that you can't use while moving. But no--those wearing the best armor and having the highest survivability are also often parsing higher than scouts--and let's not evn TALK about heals! And freaking scout autoattack can be enough to burn down mages at times. Please understand that this is not yet another "my favorite class can't solo every other class and win" post; I'm not looking for perfect class balance here. But this doesn't even pass the smell test; gear and skill being equal, some classes have stupidly huge defensive and offensive advantages simultaneously. I realize that SOE has always shown a bias toward melee damage, but this is getting ridiculous. Wake up, SOE. Please.
