thing is, certain classes use multiple fuels- like the carpenter who uses fuel and sandpaper and filament. certain quests require multiple fuels- like the daily and weekly tradeskill quests in obol plains and vesspyr isles. even if you eliminate all of the lower fuels other than the basic and a couple of other levels used for holiday crafting, that is still a lot of different kinds of fuel. i have two crafting houses- one for frostfell and one for my "army" of crafters (it takes at the very least 9 to have all crafting covered). the only other crafters i am bringing up are for the reactants from the apprentices. the primary reason i stuck all of my crafters in the same house was because of the bleed-over between stations and fuels. like the work table - used by jewelers, tinkerers, adorners and carpenters, uses coal. the woodworking table used by carpenters and woodworkers uses sandpaper. the forge, used by carpenters, armorers, and weaponsmiths, uses coal. the sewing station used by tailors and carpenters uses filament. then the new quest lines use the workbench, the sewing table and the desk. i would remove the alchemy table and the stove - but those are used by the holiday crafts. kind of hard to draw the line and move stuff to different houses without getting rather inconvenient. even if i eliminate the use for level 40 to 80 - buying fuel for those levels when needed, it still gets rather hairy. after all, when i am creating an entire wardrobe for a level 42 inquisitor, i need all of those skills and fuels. that isn't to mention when i am doing a wardrobe and spells for a level 52 necro. having the fuel depot makes it convenient to not have to go to all those different houses to create the entire ensemble.
LOL I understand Suka I really do, I started crafting for my own personal self sufficiency, and splitting it up the way I do allows me to craft for any level in a single specific house, as I support all classes with all fuels in each crafting house (oh forgot my apprentice house which has all types of fuel for the three tables required, and I carry a single stack of each fuel for the obol daily and VI weekly as I summon my tables for those quests). The issue as I see it is that people want depots that are intended for a single characters personal use to support every tier of fuel for every class. And while it would be lovely, it is unnecessary for any purpose except convenience for alts or guests (a purpose that the very name of the item shows is not its intent). Holiday fuels add 3 slots food items considered fuel another 4 or 5 if memory serves even if it was adding 20 items ( I know it is not) that would only drive a provisioner up to 33 items needed, ditto the carpenter, throw in repair materials for the tinkerer and it goes slightly higher. But no single crafter needs more than 40 slots let alone 50, and that is the point that Deveryn was making, that the design is intended for a singe character, our misuse does not warrant an expansion as nice as that would be. Now if they do it great, but I am more than satisfied with my ability to use what I have.
Yes, they are worth it and yes you can store holiday fuels in them. I love mine, and usually have them in all my crafters' homes. I do wish they held more.
Will there? there are still benefits to a guild like having someoen to group with usualy I plan to stay guilded even if the Devs get smart and give us just 10 more slots for fuel. I do'nt have any complaints bout the L&L yes it woudl be nice to have it hold more but my rule of thumb is to keep just one part for each L&L so that my toons can start it any extras get taken by the toon working on the L & L and I have not had any trouble with going over the slot limit.
with them not allowing apprentices in guildhall it would cause me to crash every day while doing the apprentice dailies on my 20 crafters my basic rig i'm on won't allow for constant zonings it would take to get to the guildhalls not to mention that I can't go into a coupel of my guildhalls due to an over abunce of items that cause my poor system to crash while trying to get in them.. so teh 500 iming on harvest depot was a concern and limit on teh fuel still is a concern here.
empasis on the part that effects me I crash out of 2 of hte guildhalls of guilds I belong to when zoning into them.
I use my guild's halls when making things for guildies when doing personal crafting I want to use my house for the much same reason you do and i am well prepared to be self sufficient. (7 years of harvesting 9 crafters at 95 7, 11 more at various levels. 7 pack ponys and 9 goblins and a decent amount of plat to pay for fuels I put in my own fuel depot.) my guildies have been there for me when I couldn't make things for myself(in fact my AB and Test toons are in that boat now) and I want the resources in the guild to remain available to for that purpose.
If we are going to cover all fuel costs that span all 10 tiers, then we can't leave out the recipes from 1-9 that cover all crafting classes. Carpenters appropriately need 33 fuel types, without holiday fuels. But as pointed out before, with quests requiring recipes crafted outside the crafters' chosen profession, a single crafter is still required to use each of the different fuels. So it is reasonable to say that at some tiers, a single crafter is required to have fuels other than what their class inherently uses. Giving any one character the ability to store all fuels will accomodate that fact that there are times they need to use those fuels not purely for crafting, but also for questing. Also, if the depots were made to cover only what any single class is able to use, then why was the resource depot increased in size to be able to carry all non-rare resources? Carpenters don't need the food resources after level 19 except for questing purposes. And if that's exactly why they were increased to where they are, then why not allow fuel depots to account for questing purposes as well?
The personal harvest depot is just that a HARVEST depot not a raw materials depot, it has a capacity to store any item any single character can harvest, if you choose to store items that that single character cannot use that is your choice. As said there is only one depot that has as its intended purpose use by alts, AND insufficient storage and that is the L & L depot (observation here the crafting depots have always been intended for a single character to use the original harvest depot only had 100 slots after all, it is all the extraneous depots that are intended for alts use. The harvest depot only expanded when the guild depot did the same.). And I am really not saying I would not accept a larger fuel depot, I just think it is a false sense of entitlement to think that they SHOULD or MUST change the existing depot as the current fuel depot is perfectly adequate for its intended purpose. Quests done with other fuels are the exception and not the norm and do not require the maintaining of every fuel at every tier (generally speaking once the quest line is done the need for that tier of fuels outside your primary is done), food items that are bought can be placed in the harvest depot and therefore should not be considered as expanding the possible fuels. There is no single class that needs to maintain more than 40 fuels let alone 50. The reason that the two devil's advocates have been saying there has been no compelling reason to alter the depot is because there isn't. The only argument is that I want to support all 9 crafting classes at all tiers from a depot intended for one crafter make it so!! That would not convince me, and I doubt it would truly convince any of you if you were not the ones who wanted it. Again it would be spectacular if they did change it, and if put to a vote I would gladly vote for the change, but I would never get angry or demand that it must be changed because I can see the intended purpose of it and do not confuse that with what I want to use it for. Sadly this discussion is like arguing with someone that their religion is wrong, it is not something that those of you who really want can be convinced is wrong headed, in our opinion, nor will we be convinced of the wrongheadedness of our stance by you, and in the end that does not matter. It is Sony that needs convincing and whether or not they take "because its what we want" as a valid argument is beyond my ability to discern with total certainty. Let's just say stranger things have happened, but I also would not hold my breath for such a thing.
problem is, a lot of people seem to forget - if you never ask for it, then you never get it. doesn't mean you will get everything you ask for. but you should ask. if no one ever gave the devs any feedback on what we want or feel we need, there would never be any changes. a lot of people act like it is a crime to ask. it isn't. that's the only way they have to know what we want.
why argue with anyone? everyone has a right to their opinions. it's not like you or anyone else in these forums makes the decisions. and it's not like anyone is committing a crime by asking for something. it is their right to ask. you don't get to be the one to say no. you can only give your opinions and they have as much merit as anyone else's opinions. that's all they are- opinions- not laws. go ahead everyone- ask for what you want. sometimes you might even get it. it NEVER hurts to ask.
And I have no problem with the asking, it is the militant attitude that some in this thread have, that it is something that should be done. Truth is there is no real reason other than we want it, all the rest is smoke and mirrors. I will gladly support the request and as said give my aye vote here for this being something I want. I just won't pretend that it is anything more than that or that there is any more compelling reason than it would be convenient for me (and others like me).
There are more containers intended for use by alts than just the L&L, I'll point out the collection depot first. It's intended usage is obviously that for sharing collection items with other characters, alts and players alike. I'm not sure exactly how many pieces there are to every collection quest in Norrath, but I'm pretty sure it also exceeds this depots capacity. Then I will point out the white adornment depot, if these depots are created by tinkers only, then the only way this depot would be of any use would be if the adorner had another character (either player or alt) to construct the depot in the first place. The argument can go the other way too, that the only way it would be of any use to a tinkerer would be if another character created the adornments for them. In either case, if a minimum of 2 characters are necessary for this depot to exist at all, then it would be reasonable to assume that this depot also had the intention of being used by alts. If the intention of any of these depots is to be used by a single character, then that would mean that the intention of the ammo depot was to be used only by Fighters or scouts that were weaponsmiths/woodworkers, that the potion depot was only intended to be used by alchemists, and the food/drink depot was to be used by provisioners. For any other classes to be able to use these depots, they would have to rely on either an alt or another player. Since there are already 2 depots that are assumed to be used by alts (L&L and collection); then it is safe to assume that all these depots are not intended to be used by a single character but to be used by alts or for sharing with other players.
i agree- like most things we would like to have in the game, it is a want and not an absolute necessity. the thing that bothers me more than the attitudes of some of those that want things are the attitudes of those responding to them as though they are doing something wrong by asking. sometimes when you are hit with those attitudes you kind of become irritated and begin to assert that you have a right to ask. and everyone does.
umm not necessarily on the white adornment depot. to argue that something must be used by more than one player because it takes two players to create (actually my tailor tinkers and makes adornments so she makes and uses all of these) is not a good argument. the fact that there is no way one toon can use all of the adornments and levels that the depot holds is much better. but to assume that it takes more than one toon to make and use these is not well thought out. it doesn't. it only takes a tinker to make them and if that same tinkerer is an adorner she can use them and if she also cooks she can put stuff in the food depot. or if she is also an alchemist or a woodworker she can use the potion one. so no it doesn't take two. it only takes one. actually most personal depots are for storing items made by the creator to either share with alts or sell. it gives them a place to store their items as they make them. the fact that our alts can use them if we give them access does not mean they were intended to be used that way- only that it is awesome and convenient that they can be. the only depots that actually seem to be intended for use by others are the L&L and the collection depots. the rest - not necessarily so. we would assume that putting food and drink in the food and drink depot allows the cook to share with others, but she could just be dumping them there until she can sell them. same with ammo depot, and potion depot. anyone notice that the only tradeskillers with no place to put their crafted items for holding for distribution are carpenters, tailors, armorers, and weaponsmiths and wood workers with the exceptions of the ammo depot and potion and totem depot? and of course sages. of all the ones to be left out, i was really hoping sages would get a depot. so really, when it comes down to it, we can't assume anything. we can only hope the devs realize the potential and allow us a bit more space.
I wasn't aware that they changed tinkering/adorning so that you could do both now. My adorner has a lot of work to do now. But in regards to the rest of it, my point still stands. As you pointed out, the lack of depots for equipment items seems to indicate that these depots aren't intended to warehouse items waiting to be sold. As far as items waiting to be used by the very character that made them, it would still limit the intended uses of these depots to only the characters that could make the items to put in them. I don't believe this to be the case.
Kurogo, Ok perhaps I was unclear the extraneous depots I mentioned are the ones that do not hold crafting supplies, (L & L, food and drink, collectible, white adorn, ammo, and poison potion and totem depots), of these only the L & L depot is woefully inadequate for its purpose. Additionally all would seem to be intended for alts usage as they exceed the necessity for any single class, or hold items that if I have collected them are useless to me. I can see no other conclusion especially as regards collectibles and L & L items, however none of these items require me to have an alt either for the making or filling of them, heck it does not even require me to be a crafter. You see there is this funny thing called the broker where I can acquire any item than can go in them, and world channels where I can commission their making. It may require another character, but that character does not have to be mine, and would seem to indicate a desire on Sony's part to encourage social interaction no matter how brief. Any direct statement by me that they were absolutely intended for alts to use would be an assumption on my part, but for the sake of discussion I am willing to allow that I consider this to be so. The fuel depot and the original harvest depot however just as obviously had no such intent. How do I know this? Because the original design was only for 20 slots and was only upgraded to allow for a carpenter's large fuel needs, holiday fuels, presumably because of the artisan recipes 1-9 for the three basic fuels there, plus, the odd fuels that are food items, and a few odd quest fuels. They exactly accommodated the worst case scenario for what a single crafter might require and nothing more. Ditto the original harvest depot at 100 slots, heck even the guild version was inadequate for all harvests then with 200. They expanded the guild depot to 2000 and consequently because of their intended 1:2 ratio on that depot expanded the personal to 1000. This had the benefit of allowing us to now have all the harvest in one place, and we naturally want to have all the fuels in one place too. Your request is nothing more than this perfectly natural desire, and no reason for expanding the depot is anything more than an extension of that. And in that context I fully support your request and say I want bigger depots too. You are being disingenuous if you claim any more than that however. Give a reason that amounts to more than "I want it", make a cogent and compelling argument for why any single crafter would need more than 50 fuels, in short give Sony something to think about. Or quit trying to put lipstick on a pig and just admit that this is just a request for something you want, and nothing more, with no more compelling reason than that, and I will shut the heck up. Because my only issue in this thread is the tone, and some flat out statements that essentially say we are entitled to this change. I am not saying this change won't happen. I am not saying that this thread won't convince them to add to our fuel depot's capacity either. I just do not believe it will be any of the actual reasons anyone has given rather the large group voicing their desire. Like Suka said asking never hurts, demanding on the other hand generally gets you laughed at.
The argument that they were intended to be used wasn't initially made by you. But the question still exists as: were they made with a single character in mind, or was more than one character considered in the design of the depots? If one character was the intended use, then any means of acquiring, filling, or distributing it's contents would also have to remain with the consideration that it was with a single character. This includes use of the broker. It is possible to purchase some items to put into the depots from some merchants, but others could only be filled with items gained through questing, since you pointed out that questing (I'll add in most cases) are only one time occurances, they shouldn't be considered. Conversely, if they were designed with other characters in mind (purchasing via broker or commissions), then those other characters should have equally been considered as alts as well as other players. Even if the exclusion of alts was intentional, the possible intention of increasing social interaction still should have prompted a consideration that other players could use these depots. In this case, the fuel depot is still inadequate for it's intended purpose.
on your permissions tab you can restrict your depots or open them up. no one really knows what the devs intended. we can only surmise. again, the potential is there. so why do people argue with the choir? to hear themselves talk?
