Wasuna wrote: I agree. Maybe a duration is not the right answer but having the best defensive abilities on a few raid fights does not sound like balance to me. Our dps is always lower and we have less utility combat arts so our defensive abilities should always be greater, which includes the group zones. I thought adding a duration would fix that but I guess I don't care what the answer is, as long as it is fixed. Thanks again for the input.
Bocon@Permafrost wrote: Stone skins are not the problem - grp make up is the problem. Bring alot of DPS and this fight is cake. There is no reason to die at all. A guardian can aoe tank both of these zones just fine. Personally I prefer to always grp with a dirge and templar = more stone skins. If thats not avail a good shaman or inqy is hard to beat too. Just take the time to build proper grps and the zones are that much more fun. Stoneskins do not need to be fixed - they are just not broken. More DPS is all we need to compete with the other plate tanks on more equal footing.
Vlahkmaak@Nagafen wrote: Yes, a good group helps alot. I am not always lucky enough to get an ideal group. It would be nice to have tools to help out with large mobs when the group makeup is not the best. Yes I would love more dps. If all tanks get equal dps and equal defensive abilities then what is the point of having different tank types? I would be happy with more dps I just thought it would be more logical to ask for better defensive abilties but it doesn't sound like to many people agree with me.
Dragoon reflexes has a duration and is useful in heroic content if that is what you are looking for. Use the AA mirror and create a heroic Spec since there are alot of warrior/guardian abilites that are useful for heroic content.
Soul_Dreamer wrote: Good luck to you. Having been very active over the past few years, been in the influencer program with SoE and had more access than most, the one reality I've come to face is the painfully slow timeline anything gets done about class issues. You're realistically looking at an 18 month lag in getting any fixes addressed. 90% of what will be addressed from a class standpoint is decided 6 months before expansion release, and virtually no input is addressed leading up to or after release. Couple with that timeline an average chain in producers every 18 months as well and its a recipe for lethargy. My expectation is, you can make all the case you want for change in beta, but by the time they let you into beta there is no time to really address anything. Beta is just an opportunity to frame what is wrong, then you have 6 months post expansion to try to make any point to get on the radar for what will be addressed at the following expansion. In the interim your stuck with broken / shoddy mechanics with no expectation of change. I've watched too many class issues that soe is fully aware of go unaddressed for too long that I simply can't find it in me to give a damn about it or this game anymore.
my 2c worth, lol i think there are not many verywell played guards left only difference between all other tanks is one thing HEALS, anything a sk pally zerk "leather tanks are not tanks" i do as well if not better, only thing i can not do is heal, but as a tank why would i need to heal i am good enough not to need it pitty those thats that do need to self heal only says one thing about your class and the player.......... and you all know what that is.............. truth Guards ROCK allways have and allways will, pitty its about how the player plays and not the class, but then again what would i know i only have 144days played on my guard
Legion2024 wrote: Why come to the forums and just throw out a couple of insults? Try dueling an SK with roughly the same gear as you. You will die and he will be at full health. You are disillusioned. If you are on the permafrost server I will show you myself how fast you face plant.
Legion2024 wrote: I'd have to check but I have something like 300 days played on my Guardian. I get comments all the time like - I've never grouped with a Guardian - Glad to see some good Guardians still around - Good job holding agro. I didn't think Guardians could - etc. The problem is when I play my Wiizard or Troubador I see what the other side has. Fights where the group had less DPS and weaker healing than my Guardian did for tough fights were just flat cake walks where the Guardian had to strugle just to get through it. The population numbers show facts. You can claim what you want.
I have a total of two EQ2 toons.........each on a seperate account so I get to box them often. One if my Guardian the other my Assassin. ATM my Assassin is my main raid toon and is geared very well....much better than my Guard although I have had the chance to get some nice raid gear for my Guardian. This has allowed me to see pretty much all angles of the current Guardian situation....... 1) Before obtaining some of the better raid gear and the various Stonewill, Threat proc gear the Guardian was way behind other fighters that didnt have such gear as well......in all areas.........tanking, aggro and of course DPS. Once I got the better gear then he was on par with them regardless of gear. Not sure if that is considered good balance or not but it is what it is. ATM with his gear he can tank anything any of the others can and assuming I play the class correctly has no aggro issues whatsoever even in high DPS groups. Gear has made the difference........but at its core if you compare the Guardian to the other Plate tanks ...disregarding gear Guardian falls way way way short. 2) WHen I play my Assassin on raids the tank I have the least trouble with in terms of having to watch my own aggro is ironically our Guardian. 3) When I play my Assassin in PuGs (something that I really do not do very often) I can really tell the difference between the tank classes. It takes at a min a well basically raid geared well played Guard or a average geared average played SK or Pally to be able to hold aggro effectively. While at the top end raid gear sorta equals things out..........without such gear Guardian is still way way behind the other tanks in all categories that define a tank. IMO that is not good balance.
learn your class fact, i DON'T have a drama with agro because i play my class, i INSTRUCT my group i don't party with other tanks unless raiding and the guys i raided with are skilled and know how to control their deeps. second a sk fight yeah sure come the naggy meet me in kp and HOPE YOU HAVE ALL DAY. i recon you rage a bit to much, and sound like my 2yo becaue you are not very good at something. just because you struggle with groups does not mean we all do, not my drama you suck as a player, that is not my fault thats yours, yes i am a guard i have been a guard for a while now. wow some people and yes seems there are ONLY a hand full of GREAT guards left, tbh while tanking most t9 i facebook because its that boring that easy that its not funny, and you are hear complaining. so you have full masters.........? raid/pvp gear full set with the RIGHT adorns......? do you instruct your group or do you say nothing........? do you know how agro works even with group encounters.....? do you know the strats to all the mobs....? did you work out all the mobs or were you told how to tank them....? do you do more pugs then guild/friend groups with all this said do you still hunt for gear to help you when you get beat by a mob or do you just sook. it is all in the game for you waiting to learn there is so much out there there is some simple questions for you that might help your problem I'm not saying we don't need some love but we have some of the best skill sets if YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM RIGHT so you are here complaining so how about a list of your gear aa points adorns etc etc so we al lcan get the truth on YOUR toon because my toon is just fine wasana yeah i get them all the time even while pvping, he seems to think sks are unbeatable well think he needs to come to naggy to find out the facts, and second SOE does not script mob in this game so you hold agro 100% of the time that would be plain stupid. just wow and Draylore yeah there are some cruddy guards/sk's/pallys/zerks out there you cant help that at all ...
Legion2024 wrote: SK will take a guard any day if they are even close to being geared the same unless the SK is being played by a complete idiot. Just from that statement alone tells you you don't know jack about the guard class. And quit hiding, post your char name.
Legion2024 wrote: You are missing the point. Yes, if you have raid gear, a good group and a full set of masters you can do the hard zones wtih a guard. I am saying when you dont have the best gear or the best group the other tanks have better tools for handling those hard zones and can still do them. No one even mentioned anything about aggro problems. You are the one raging. Don't come to the forums and spout off about how good you are and how horrible everyone else is. Noone wants to hear it and noone cares. Usually the people who brag are the worst players. I have never said I had the best gear. In fact I said I was lacking some gear. The only thing I said is that our stoneskins don't work with large encounters. That is the point of the thread. You add nothing to the thread. You just rolled in here and said I am the greatest ever. If you pvp or do BGs with a guard then you would know against other tank classes we get owned. I didn't realize how bad it was until I started doing BGs. So, I don't use my guard for BGs anymore. You are clearly clueless on this and makes everyone question if you know anything at all. You probably run around in raid gear with a great healer and dps and think you are the greatest thing ever. Go somewhere else and talk how great you are because I know that noone else here cares.
I would take a really enourmous gear and skill advantage for a Guard to have any hope in a fight against a SK. Basically the SK would have to be in cloth and AFK. =P Any SK I know would wipe the floor against any Guard no matter how good they may think they are. Take a Guard and SK on equal footing gearwise and skillwise and there would be no contest. Not that any of that matters because EQ2 should not be balanced around 1-on-1 PvP performance. I could care less if SKs can run around one-shotting everyone in PvP ...just as long as in PvE things are fair and balanced. Currently they are close but still alot of room for improvements..........mostly with regards to Guardian 1h/shield DPS and non MT/OT viability. Stoneskins are fine. Defensively we are fine.
From what i have seen on my monk playing with out raid gear for a long time and know being in a raid guild and geared with t1 and t2 armor, the heroic game really changes for monks when we out gear the content. I am thinking that Bocon 's point is that it is the same way on Guard 's. It is almost required to over gear content for Guard's and brawlers in order to be able to be as effective as a knite of zerker of equal skill. the balance for brawlers change when we get raid geared, but that shouldn't be a requirement to be able to play any class well.
just one word cruddy players, where do you fit in........? do you put the time in to your toon, do you know when to use your stone skins....? what are your groups like....? cruddy group=cruddy zone or do you expect only the guard to carry a hole group though the zone with your stone skins, lol laughable, you are complaining about a class and you say you don't have good gear, what the hell do you expect when you try zones.......? a free dam ride. here play a while longer get some gear do the battle grounds, advance your aa, it takes work to build a toon and tbh its the same with every class... work work work yeah so what im a good guard but im no broncas, but i all so put the time in and all so remember you can instruct your group on when to cast their spells and what not, or once again do you sit there not knowing what the other classes skill sets are, btw our stone skins work well when you have a group that works together, in all situations pvp zones and raiding, just because you have not worked it out does not mean our stone skins are broken and need more... that is laughable
Legion2024 wrote: I notice you're still not saying who you are. I'm MT/Raid leader/Guild leader of a relatively successful raid guild on my server (Top 4/5 on the server) and have been for over 5 years. In Heroic content I have trouble holding the DPS classes from my guild without at least a Dirge or Coercer, my personal DPS is also in the toilet compared to our SK/Zerker in these heroic instances, seriously, they just destroy zones. I'm not saying I CAN'T do these instances or it's hard, but it takes a lot more work for me than it does the other plate tanks with equal gear. I can play my brothers SK (our OT) and do things I can't or at least no where near as easily on my Guardian. Claiming you can do anything the other plate tanks can and better is just laughable I'm afraid. You have no clue what you are on about and aren't even willing to say who you are. In every single area of play with the exception of a couple of HM raid encounters ANY group/raid will be better off with a SK/Zerk/Pally tanking than they would with an equally geared Guardian. The recent changes made being a heroic Guardian easier but we are far from Balanced and need more gear to do the same things the other tanks do. Defensively the Plae fighters are the most balanced they have ever been, offensively there are very large disparities in the classes potential. Raiding things are more balanced because of the huge amount of emphasis placed on the MT and the MT group for agro for any tank class, there is so much help for agro any MT can hold a raid. Even raiding though there is a pretty large DPS gap between the tank, this gap goes sky high when you get any sort of AOE content or room pulling trash.
who asked who i am..? and im sorry you find it hard. and btw if you put the hole thing on to the tanks hands then you fail straight off ITS A GROUP EFFORT, thats what makes a good tank a good group. FACT ohh and having a basic understanding of the classes/mobs that you have a problem with. that goes a long way. learning a mob what it hits with what type of damage, how fast it hits, and what you should be hitting it with and what every other class in your group what they bring to the table when i first started tanking the only class i had a problem with was warlocks, but as a tank i learn and adept and overcome ITS OUR ROLL AS A TANK, and if you wanted to know who my pvp toon is just ask, its that simple, i am now a pvp tank, for pvp groups pvp raids warfields and some battlegrounds. i insta zone for guildys that want select gear from those zone. but i guess because a few are having problems that they will change the hole class to make it easy for those that can not put the time and effort in to their toon. path of lest resistance.
Where did I even say I found it hard, Jesus stay off forums your 5 year old reading age obviously doesn't equip you well enough to join in the conversations. The whole thing IS on the tank, I've never told any group I've been in to slow down or do things differently for my benefit, you're saying you do? Do you honestly think any other plate tanks have to, or that DPS don't mind you doing that. The game isn't about managing hate anymore, DPS expect the tank to hold hate while they basically do what they like, a tank that fails at this is seen to be failing. Guardian - Brigand - Warlock - Troub - Illy - Inquisitor The Guardian in that group will more than likely have agro issues if the group are of equal gear to him, replace the Guardian with any other Plate tank and they won't, or at least the issues will be very minimal, Guardians are still the plate tank that need the most help for their hate especially if they have to throw on a shield. You're either deliberately being obtuse or you actually believe the falacy that Guardians are equal to the other tanks in all areas as you claim. A Guardian won't out DPS any other plate tank of equal gear and skill, a Guardian has less Hate than every other plate tank of equal gear and skill. Claiming otherwise is just showing how little you know. Btw... still no idea who you are, you've said your play style, not WHO YOU ARE.
Legion2024 wrote: Go back to your cave and stay there. Your opinions are worthless. You respond in incoherent babble. You clearly don't know what you are talking about and are lacking intelligence. This isn't about anyone wanting a free ride. This is about guardians having less tools then other tanks. Everyone knows that except you.
