I just can't do the hard instances unless I am with a ridiculously good group. My guard has some raid gear and some bg gear. He is not the greatest but he is not a puss as far as guards go. I am not going to even mention DPS. But our stoneskins are crap. Tower of Stone takes 4 hits and and Last man Standing takes 7 hits. When there are multiple mobs like most of the hard zones have they last only about 1 second. Other tanks have invulnerabilities that last for 30 seconds. That is many times better. Tower of Stone should stone skin for 15 seconds and Last man standing should last for 30 seconds. Anything else is unacceptable. My guardian can't guard crap because he is dead. FIX THE STONESKINS!!!
Bocon@Permafrost wrote: You can't be serious? our Stoneskin abilities are the best thing we have going for us....but they are situational and honestly for instancing they are mostly for emergency only. Sounds to me like you don't know how to use them.....i.e your spamming them whenever they are up which is not correct. Besides what "hard instance" are you talking about? because with a decent healer we really dont even need to use them at all for most instances.
Yes the stoneskin is our best ability but they are way to short. I said if you have a great group wich includes a great healer then you probably won't need them. I am talking about the queen fight in cella or one of the many mobs in palace when you have large groups on you and you are dieing fast. You hit your save but they only last for a second because when you 5 or 6 mobs beating on you they each only have to hit you once and the stoneskin is gone. Other tanks have invulnerabities that last for 30 seconds. Which is going to take many more hits then the 4 you get with TOS or 7 you get with Last man standing. I don't think our stoneskins even compare to that. They need to last for a set amount of time. They are very much worthless in fights which have a large number of mobs. They work well against a single opponent but how often do you need them against a single mob, almost never. So, they are by and large broken and that is why I think they need to be fixed. If you are lucky enough to always have a good group then you probably don't care but I think the rest of us do.
Use Guardian Sphere or Defensive Minded when tanking swarms of mobs and equip a shield perhaps? and only use LMS or ToS when you spike. Both of those fights last a long time and no tank has full immunity up for the entire duration unless you have a *lot* of DPS on the palace one. it is all about bringing a healer who knows what they are doing and trying to reduce the incoming damage to assist. Equip a couple of stonewill items and try again And fyi my pally only has 8s frontal melee immunity (not including strikethroughs) every 1m19s and I've tanked it just fine.... 15s every 1min total immunity... wow... just wow yeah that's a great idea for the guardian class /petition
Tower of Stone only stoneskins for 4 hits and that doesnt even last a second in those mobs. It doesn't give the healer time to get you back to full health. Yes I am defensive and have a shield. Tower of Stone doesn't work without a shield. Yes, Guardian sphere helps but we need an immunity that lasts a given duration to give the healer time to get us back to full health. Last man standing only takes 7 hits, so even that doesn't help much and that is on a 5 minute recast. The guardian stoneskins are broken. They need to be fixed! The 8 seconds you get would be more then enough time to get you back to full health even if one or two of the mobs were not positioned correctly. A majority of the mobs are going to be in front of you. I know SK's get a 30 second immunity. That is enough time to get you to full health and go get a cup of coffee. I don't want to get in a which tank is better argument. I just think our stoneskins are broken and they need a duration associated with them.
Boli32 wrote: Hmm, checking, yup this is a guardian thread right. Check. Don't really know why i would be concerned about a class that i don't play. Check. There is a paladin thread. Check. Please click on this link if you mis-clicked the first time: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...w.m?forum_id=47
Bocon@Permafrost wrote: Really? SKs have a 30 sec immunity? Let me know what that ability is because I obviously need to spec for it. Try more like 15 sec on a 4 min recast, and it can be struck thru.
My apologies. I thought someone said it was 30 seconds. I don't play an SK. Again, I don't want to get in a class argument. I just think our stoneskins need a duration associated with them. They don't work with large number of mobs, when we need them most.
Betray to berserker for heroic/group content. Guardian class is only for raid tanking where damage is less frequent and comes in much larger amounts. In this situation stoneskins are very powerful. In heroic and pvp content, guardian stoneskins are mostly a joke. As a zerker you get 30s of all damage reduced by 50%. With proper buffs/gear this is up 30s of every minute.
Humayon wrote: I'm just pointing out I have not nor never had 30s immunities and yes I can tank it just fine... even with n00bish healers/group; it just takes a bit of common sense. Shesh can't you guard's take a joke you spent the last 3 months shooting down all our ideas to get our heals fixed and then you lay up this 15s every 1min pernament stoneskin down as a "great improvement" and "balanced". If you don't think that's overpowered then you really need to retake maths again. The above abilities (GS DM) will not STOP damage... but they will REDUCE it; given its herioc content and contested avoidance works you should be able to pretty much avoid most of the hits as it is; a couple of stonewill items and any healer who could find their heal buttons could keep you alive. In short... equip your brain and when you have a duff group play it safe
Tootles@Unrest wrote: I was hoping it wouldn't come to that. I am starting to think that is what I have to do. We are not very wanted in raids anymore, as most people already know, so I do mostly group content. Ya, and in pvp he is a joke but I have other toons for that.
Boli32 wrote: Why the arrogance? I am looking for constructive feedback. If the only thing you can say is "...equip your brain" then stay out of the discussion. I know how to play my class.
Bocon@Permafrost wrote: If your guild is not working HM content, you have no need for a guard. If you are working HM content, your guild should probably pick one person to have a raid geared Guardian Alt.
Tootles@Unrest wrote: Unfortunately, you are probably right. That is why I am trying to make us more useful for the other content.
Sorry but our Stoneskin abilities are fine and quite useful as they are. My guardian has no issues taking the DMG in any instance......even with less than stellar healers he does just fine....and does not rely soley on the Stoneskins. Only time I really rely heavly on the ToS or LMS or Dragoon is when im boxing some instances without a healer =P And the Cella queen fight is a gimmick fight......its not meant to be traditionally "tanked/healed" .....should not use that fight as any indicator of class weaknesses. If your group is doing the fight correctly you shouldnt even need stoneskins and as everyone knows heals on that fight are useless. If you think you need 30sec stoneskins to be able to do the Cella fight your doing the fight wrong. We do not need anymore "defensive" oriented buffs. What we need a significant boost in our DPS .....especially when using shield.
Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote: While true, and true of my Guard alt, any other plate class would take even less damage in instances and do more dps at the same time. Now try it in pvp and see if you think you can absorb rapid small damage the same as other tanks.
Gaylon@Mistmoore wrote: Thanks for the input. You are right cella is a bad example. But Palace is a perfect example. But again, I have to disagree with you. I don't think you are good example anyway. You are fully fabled, with raid gear I am sure the zone is easier for you then most. I have given up on the dps issue. It is a dead horse. But I do think that putting a duration on our stoneskins would be a lot more useful. It definately won't hurt us any, I am not sure why you are against it. Explain?
Bocon@Permafrost wrote: Maybe because some people actually enjoy balance? Do you spec Dragoons? That is very similar to the abilities other tanks have that you claim to be missing...a short duration buff that parries all attacks. Although I am sure most will tell you it is not an ability worth taking because it is not needed that badly compared to the AA cost for it. If they put a duration on stoneskins they would be extremely over-powered in raid content. At that point in order to put a duration on them they would have to lower their effectiveness changing the stoneskins into more of a damage reduction ability. Sort of like Adrenaline. Depending on the duration and the amount of stoneskins the damage reduction would have to be even less than Adrenaline.
Bruener wrote: Balance? Are you kidding me? Then we are going to need a lot more then a duration on our stoneskins. No. I don't want dragoons. It is not worth taking. I have tried it.
Bruener talking about class balance? lol I know he don't want balance, he still believes SK are balanced.
