My carpenter, who isn't yet much of an adventurer, is working on the daily tradeskill tasks in the Moors of Ykesha. I'd love to be able to buy the special furniture books for him, but even with the recent change to the faction requirement (0 faction instead of 10,000) it's still far beyond his reach. After doing several daily tasks, as well as the Ship Out! quest and the following quests from Mug, Zubzub, and Varick, he's still at -16,750 faction with Tupta and Grobb. This means he'll have to do 67 more daily tasks, at a net improvement of 250 faction each, in order to get the books from Tupta and Grobb. Is there some other way for a crafter to gain faction out here? It seems a bit ridiculous that months of work and waiting will be required to buy a special crafting book for a crafter, when an adventurer could get it much more quickly (but a pure adventurer couldn't use it!).
Ilmarinen@Lucan DLere wrote: I'm right there with you. My Carpenter is -14k and change with Guktan Guard, -18k and change with Grobb. Besides leveling up your Carpenter to be able to adventure in Moores, the only other thing I found can work is to group with L80s as they kill Ykeshans and Thullosians near Guk. But it's not a free ride, you have to do something that'll get you into combat to get the faction ding. My Carpenter's a retired L24 Fury, and I just tossed a heal during combat and gained the faction ding. It's 25 faction per mob to Guktan Guard and Clan Grobb. Adventurers need the faction for Guktan Guard at 20k to advance the Cloak of the White Dragon HQ, so it's a benefit for all. Frankly, this faction gaining wouldn't be so bad if the 24 hr lockout was removed. That right there is what prohibits crafters from gaining the books in a reasonable amount of time. They have to be a hybrid (adventure/crafter) in order to gain anything. I'd even not mind an in-game time lockout of 24 hrs, that'd be 72 minutes for a rotation of the Norrathian world. Much better than 24 hrs in the real world. I understand drawing things out to give incentive, but frankly this sort of thing is more prohibitive and more prone to lead to crafters just giving up in disgust and frustration. I've seen this in chat channels on Unrest server, spoken to crafters about it, and seen the same in forums. Adventurers don't have this 24 hr real time lockout on their repeatable faction quests, so why must crafters have this lockout on theirs? You know there'll be such screaming in the forums if there were. Adventurers aren't hamstrung like this, so why must crafters be? Really, what is the reason for the 24 hr lockout? Why does it matter so much if a crafter is able to blow thru gaining faction within Moores or Far Seas Supply quickly?
Hmmm I like the idea of a 24 hour IN-GAME time lock out... I'm fortunate in that my crafter is also an 80 adventurer so I have other options available to me... but 67 days of faction questing is crazy... It's bad enough that my sage and alchemist and jeweler still have yet to grind out faction in order to get the special recipes from Bathezid's, Danak and Rillis... I gave up after grinding forever just to get them high enough to get the epic earring quest starter... but at least I could do that in a day or two if I really put my time into it... As for Tupta and Grobb... yeesh, with a faction hit to one while working for another it just seems grindy and unnecessary. . . do the adventure quests do that too?? Haven't started them yet but I have one in my journal from Tupta and I don't think it gives a hit to Grobb faction (not home right now to verify)
Cynith@Antonia Bayle wrote: A guildee was running as much of the Guktan quests as he could and he said there was a hit towards Grobb, 150 or something like that. I'm not at that point on my hybrids (Warden/WS and Paladin/Alchy). On the flip side, he wasn't too thrilled about getting only up to 17k and now has to kill Ykeshans and Thullosians for the rest of his faction for the White Dragon Cloak HQ. In this case, hybrids are better off because they can use the crafting quests to gain what they need. But there they'll also be hamstrung by the 24 hr lockout. But if they've not yet run Ship Out or the extra quests that give 15k, they can kick up that last 3k from Ship Out alone. It's Maj'Dul courts all over again. I never did those, so hated that balancing act.
Pheep@Unrest wrote: There was no crafting option to gaining -any- Maj'dul faction or are you only refering to the "you work for my enemy you'll reduce your faction with me" mechanic?
Rijacki wrote: Heh, yes that...should've made that clearer. For my scholars at the time, I bought so many tokens so they could get the recipes. /rolls eyes It's just old twitching. Some of my crafters still have negative Ironforge faction from way back when.
Yep, adding to this. I went thru the levels from Old World to Moores, looking for other repeatable faction quests on the adventuring side. City tasks: faction with the fighter, scout, mage, priest (Qeynos, Freeport, Kelethin) or city (Gorowyn, Neriak), no cool down. Desert of Flame: Maj'Dul Courts, no cool down. The Grifter faction quests had a one hour cool down. Pillars of Flame: the monk repeatable faction quests for the titles. No cool down. Tenebrous Tangle: Order of Marr repeatable faction quests have no cool down. Barren Sky, Bonemire: didn't find any repeatable faction quests. EoF content: no repeatable faction quests did I find. RoK content, Fens of Nathsar: Bathezid's Watch, Riliss, Bellywhumper repeatable faction quest can be taken one after the other. No cool down. Kunzar Jungle: City of Jinisk, Kunzar Jungle Villagers, Tabernacle of Pain, Synod Reet, Hidden Plunderers, Outer Sebilis, Dalnir's Wheel Taskmasters, Ry'zilk's Renegades all have repeatable faction quests, no cool down. Kylong Plains and Jarsath Wastes: no repeatable faction quests. TSO: Survival Accord, Guktan Guard, Clan Grobb, I haven't seen any repeatable faction quests for adventurers yet as my own toons are in Firmroot. Now for crafters... City tradeskill: Ironforge, Coalition of Tradesfolk, Tunare's Pages, Dark Bargainers, Academy of Logistics, Brotherhood of Trade, no cool down on their repeatables. RoK: Bathezid, Rillis, Danak, no cool down on the repeatables. TSO: Survival Accord, Guktan Guard, Clan Grobb, repeatables have a cool down until midnight PST. I have tested this. I would pick one up at 1pm, next day it'd be available when I went to Tupta at 4:30 or so, and so on. I realized it wasn't 24 hours, but that after midnight (I live in PST), I could get another one. If one is picked up at 11pm PST and then another after midnight and finished, there is still the long cool down period until midnight after that day. I haven't done any of the Far Seas Supply quests, but I'm willing to bet they have the same cool down period. TSO: Far Seas Supply, no cool down on writs (haven't done any but haven't heard anyone complain about cool down). So there is precedence for no cool down or a small cool down (one hour) with repeatable quests for adventurers. So why then must crafters in TSO have a cool down of such a long period for theirs? Content throughout the game actively encourages farming of faction for adventurers. Why should it matter that crafters also farm their faction in Moores and Far Seas? Should't it be encouraged? The sooner a crafter has their TSO furniture recipes and their void shard recipes, the sooner they can interact with adventurers who seek their goods. Isn't that what we've heard from the devs? Reasons for going outside the tradeskill instances and safe cities, interaction with others?
Pheep@Unrest wrote: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...05� This mirrors what was decided for the adventurer content. This is the direction we decided to take and the crafting content simply falls in line with that. If the adventurer content is ever changed, you can expect that the tradeskill content would be also.
DominoDev wrote: Okay, I've a retraction and apology to make. My apologies for the misunderstanding. My toons are in Firmroot, they haven't progressed further yet (been working up my lower level alts). I had no idea there were repeatable faction quests for adventures similar to what crafters have in TSO. I've not heard anyone complain about the cool down on these. I do know that Guktan Guard faction is needed for The Cloak of the White Dragon HQ. What I have been hearing in regards to this (level chat on server) is to do the Guktan quests and then go slaughter Ykeshan and Thulosians for fast faction. I've seen the areas around Guk full of adventurers who are mass pulling and killing these mobs. I know they give 25 faction per mob with both Guktan Guard and Clan Grobb. I went to the thread linked above, read and reread several times what missdoomcookie says. I went searching thru Alla's and finally found reference to the dailys in the Moores for adventurers. But what I don't find is their cool down period, but given that the crafter quests are based on these, I'll assume the same downtime. Little wonder then that the areas of Guk are swarming with adventurers who are mass slaughtering Ykeshans and Thulosians for faction. Again, my apologies.
DominoDev wrote: Except that for the adventurer content, you also have questlines that give large amounts of faction (you can get +50K faction from the questlines, which should put an adventurer at about positive 12K of faction) without any cool-downs or lockouts at all. The extra Ship Out quests don't give nearly that much. And then there's mob kills, which have no cool-down, so adventurers have an unlimited no-waiting way of gaining faction that crafters don't (unless they're also high-level adventurers). I've already seen groups running around outside Guk slaughtering mobs for Grobb and Tupta faction, I figure with a decent group of 4-6 with good damage you can get around +15-20K an hour there (the main limiting factor will be the 7-minute respawn). I don't know of any adventurers who're taking time to run the repeatable faction quests as their main way of gaining faction (I know I took a look at those quests and said "I'll run 'em once for the AA, but I had enough of that grind back in Fens.") . They'll run them for that little extra boost, but their big gains will be the things that don't have cool-downs or lock-outs they have to wait on. Crafters, though, don't get any sort of equivalent task, one they can run in a few seconds that gives them +25 faction a shot and not have to wait before the next one. Admitedly, hybrid adventurer/crafters are sitting pretty here. We can just ignore the repeatable quests entirely, finish the main questlines and get our crafting books without ever having to bother with a cool-down or waiting period. But it seems rather odd that an adventurer who crafts purely as a side-line and convenience for his guild can get those books so trivially, while someone whose character is primarily a crafter has such a grind.
making trade/crafting mirror and go along with adventureing is a major mistake. Alot of people that do alot of dradeskill do so because they don'tr/can't do the adventureing stuff and love to craft. crafting is in no was comparable to adventureing its suppost to be something to do that you can enjoy in the game if you dont really care for the adventureing part. I fear the way things are going sience the expansion came out the changes are hurting the enjoyablity of the game in major ways. For me i love to craft in the game and sience i started college crafting has been the only thing i can do in the limited time i have but now that i cant grind faction i cant even do that. so if i dont have time to adventure and i cant enjoy grinding faction for recipies what is there for someone like me to do?
All adventurer timer vs crafting timer being equal aside, what really gripes me are the statements that the carpenter recipes for these factions are pure fluff so we should just suck it up. If it's fluff, it shouldn't take a 3 month concerted effort to complete. And likewise, if it takes 3 months of concerted effort, at +250, -150 faction per day (hopefully that's right), it shouldn't be fluff. Please note I haven't done the math, I'm too busy out there killing Thullosians to get my carpenter the +25 to each of the factions to bother to count, but that's the once-per-day-timing I've seen others post. Luckily one of my carpenters is level 80 so can kill for some faction instead of doing the once-per-day things.
Thorrn@Lucan DLere wrote: They are useable by any tradeskiller. Infact I have all three scribed on my sage.
Scoff@Mistmoore wrote: The crafting repeatables are 500/-250, the adventure ones are 250/-150. But I agree, all this for fluff items. Makes no sense at all. However, I gained the faction I needed for Guktan Guard on my L24 retired Fury/L74 Carpenter in three days. How? I looked over what I know about game mechanics that are currently in play and tested a theory. Grouping with a L80 I don't get combat xp, however, I did get faction dings. As long as I was able to cast Cure or a heal when the tank pulled, my Fury was in combat enough to get the ding. You must be in combat in some way, there's no free ride on autofollow to a L80, there's no faction ding at all that way. We roamed around Guk where the balloon ride lands you. Fight from a distance with the frogloks (ranged attack or cast), they have a frontal ae. The trolls are casters and you can get in close with them on a fight. Be careful of respawns, they're rather fast. It took three days and many deaths due to not seeing respawning mobs around Guk, but I bought the Tuptan book tonight. We're going to make the push tomorrow or the next day to get the Grobb book. In roughly an hour's time you can get enough faction, if the player(s) are careful, to cut out three days of dailys. That's 1500 faction from 25 faction each mobs. Yes, that's a lot, but it can be done. My husband did so for me on his Paladin for an hour earlier today, gaining 1200 faction. Hours later, a Templar friend, Wizard guildee, the Paladin and I grouped for the faction slaughter, and I went from -7725 to +100 faction with Guktan Guard in three hours. And I'm currently at -5900 faction with Clan Grobb. It was a win situation for all of us since they also needed to up their faction with Guktan Guard for The Cloak of the White Dragon HQ. So there you go, Pheep's recipe on getting faction fast for crafters in the Moors. Good luck!
DominoDev wrote: Domino, my carpenter is currently at -16,000 faction with Grobb and Tupta, after doing the Ship Out! quests, the following quests from Zubzub and Varick, and a number of daily tradeskill tasks. At a rate of 250 faction per day, it will take him another 64 days to reach zero faction, at which point he can purchase the crafting books. Your argument here would only hold water if it would take the adventurers more than two months to reach zero faction. It won't. It might take two days, but only if you take the quests slowly. Adventurers have numerous avenues for improving faction. Crafters have one. To put the only means of gaining faction for a pure tradeskiller on the same footing as the least desirable means for adventurers is patently unfair. Not all crafters are also level 80 adventurers, after all.
this is just another hit to the soloers of the game check out this thread http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=436618 and i am sure there are a bunch of other topics out there discussing the fact that sience TSO came out there forceing soloers out of the game. seems this is just another nail in the coffen. i spent most of yesterday doing the group crafting thing solo because no one wanted to do it and its the only way to get tokens daily. took me like 4 hours to do. i got 1500 faction and 1 coin and a couple of treasure items.
You're sure it's 0 that is needed and not -9999 now ? I thought you only needed to hit the grey part now. Depending on what is the faction needed now, I will work on this faction for my carpenter or not. I took adventage of my level 76 necro to grab the books on my main (80 alchy)... even if the quests that are giving a huge boost for adventurer require a higher level than 77 to be taken
Whilhelmina@Storms wrote: Positive. I checked the faction needed when the change went thru, also thinking that because indifferent was -9999 it may be around there. Nope, wasn't, was 0, right between -9999 and +9999. When you check the merchant, it'll tell you that you need 0 faction for it. My Carpenter is a L24 retired Fury/L74 Carpenter. The dailys are 500/-250. But as I explained further up this thread, you can get around the cool down by taking your Carpenter with highers who can kill the Ykeshans and Thullosins around Guk. Brokenskulls and Nuknoks also count in faction towards Clan Grobb and Guktan Guard. Tested that out last night.
Crafting group missions are very very hard to get on my server and believe me I have asked. As for the direction TSO took on the cool down on repeat faction quest's wasn't being fair to level adventure/high level crafter here if you ask me. I havn't even started on my capenter just becuase of this for I am not spending days on trying to get faction with one or all of these cities. I truely undersand the need to get people to group more for this game as so strayed away from that, for anymore people only want to group with guildies when before ............ it didn't matter for how would you as player ever meet new people or an uber player or bad if you don't even at least try? ...... but I see a lot of resistant toward this forced grouping plan that so many players have gotton spoiled to how easy it is to solo. I know I am one them that likes to solo but at the same time I like to group and guess what? I am spending 30 mins or more trying to get a group together and that is bad to me when in the old days maybe took 10 mins or less for people were not so picky who they grouped with or weather they has this class or that class to be sucessful. Now only if we can get rid of the forced grouping with certain classes only to suceed then just maybe we can get back on track!
