lol 4500 is a fully legendary/fabled plate tank. Also the curve gets smaller after 4000 or so, I can't remember, so the returns start to diminish.
why do they have to make the CAs ad1 at all? why can't they just base it off what spells you ahve in your spellbook since the whole eof AA tihng was supposed to be mods to existing spells... all the other AAs use your current spells' quality so why shouldn't the warden tree's AAs? that would fix a lot of the issues ppl have with these AAs imo
From a design standpoint, I can't come up with a way to do it. You don't want to modify the spell into a combat art, because you lose the spell. And since these new combat arts are their own ability... I really cannot think of a way to do it, but if anyone can, try feedbacking it.
I think you've got it all wrong. What would i want more wis gear for? even with the stat cap increase it's still all to easy to get massive wisdom. I currently self-buff to 623 wisdom, 420 or so INT, and over 300 stamina. If i wanted to jack my wisdom up there i could start dumping all my sta/int gear and have crazy amounts of wisdom. This is in t7 gear which all of us complained had too much wisdom and benefited fury's more...although i have no problem getting more INT then most fury's i know. If your not using the new CA's from EoF, what do you need STR for? All i'm saying is that AA's were intitially designed to offer greater customization within a class. KOS did it a little, and EoF is doing it much more. The CA's allow us to do something new. And i never said heal crits were worthless, they just were for me who's in a guild with immensly talented defiler/cleric and i burn a bunch of my ticks on 90% of fights so i went a different route, thats what AA's are about having options for players. Not locking us into a must have AA line (heal crits for instance most would consider must have). I just don't want the current AA's getting changed...we already heal better then fury's so they needed the bump (and it's small anyway) and we got diversity. While all the fury's will be grabbign for the extra heals to keep up with us we'll be branching out and becoming more versatile and doing other things. Plain and simple, the goal of AA's is to allow greater customization and they nailed it spot on. you say our job is healing but all healers have a secondary role, and our secondary role is DPS! and BTW, i am in beta and there is some decent gear with str on it if you were so inclined!
also.. why do you guys keep posting that the duration is 1 minute? I'm sitting on beta right now, looking at my enhanced cure trauma nad it says 36s, not 1 min... =/
That's because the spell description is contradicting itself. I just checked again... the spell says "Duration: 36.0 seconds", but in the spell description below it says "Lasts for 1 minute." Let's just hope the latter is correct, otherwise the power cost would be really prohibitive. Verdant Sigh, on the other hand, has no duration at all, just the text "Lasts for one minute." Edit: Ok, I've tried both spells and the duration of Verdant sigh is 1 minute, while the single cure spells seem to trigger 2 effects, one with a 1 minute duration ("Resist Trauma") and one with a duration of 36 seconds ("Cure Trauma"). The one that's affecting the mitigation is actually "Resist Trauma", which lasts for 1 minute. At least that's the current state in the beta... looks like a bug to me. Message Edited by Maledan on 11-07-2006 03:00 PM Message Edited by Maledan on 11-07-2006 03:04 PM
It's all about playstyle. I personally have never been interested in melee and don't much care for it. That's my playstyle. Just looking at the new stuff for Furies and Wardens coming out, the Fury definately looks to fit my playstyle better now. I will reserve further judgement until after release of EoF and fixes before I decide what to do with my Warden. I think it's human nature to look at all this stuff coming out and going "Wow, I've played my class a certain way all this time, and now I have options to play it different. But I don't want to play it different and I hope there is something there that will allow me to continue along the lines of the same playstyle I enjoy." From looking at the new stuff, Furies are getting what I want for my Warden. I won't be betraying my Warden (I think!) because of the cost involved, but more than likely I'll make a Fury to mess around with on the side.
I'll copy and paste a bit from the beta forms I posted. The melee line is junk and this is coming from a Warden who likes to melee. You're better off casting spells and meleeing with the final melee crit end ability then putting points into melee CAs. Here's why: The problem with the melee line is the recast of the CAs. There's too much of a penalty for making it a CA. Here's an example: Fire Strike (melee CA) - 440-538 damage. Cast .5 secs, recovery .5 secs, recast 10 secs. Solar flame (non-melee) - 456-557 damage. Cast 2 secs, recast .5, recast 3 secs Now without the melee CA you can cast for that much damage every 5 seconds. With the melee CA you can cast for that much damage every 10.5 seconds. There's a timer penalty associated with making it a CA. This makes the CA useless and you're better off using it as a spell. To fix this line the CAs need to be more damage then the spell variant with even str and int with the same cast frequency. Otherwise it's just wasted points beyond getting to melee crits.
Why does everyone assume that you have to take the melee line? If you like to solo by rooting and nuking then take the movement line for a buffing up of your roots. If you want to melee then get the melee CA's! And the renewal line and the cure line are handy for most everyone! The increase to spores is big...8% proc'd a LOT (IMO) and 13% is nice! Spirit of the bat is handy for raids not so much for soloing or grouping! The cure's are handy as just a simple it buff! For the last few months most of the gripes of the warden community have been about our Divine intervention spells (and they made and AA for it, which makes it semi-useful). Tranquility, which is getting a shortened cast time to make it useful! Also our buffs, now we didn't get any new buffs, we got pretty much blanket mit buffs via our cures....i'm a big fan! As i've said there are plenty of wardens who do like to melee, and they might see promise in the CA's. I'd just sit back and enjoy, and as i said before get excited about tunare for all the good wardens out there!
eh, the spores are going to cost us 8 aa points instead of 5 (honestly, the 3 points in the res AA are so useless that you might as well just throw them in the garbage), and 10 FT is a very bad trade for 5 AA points. FT in eq2 isnt like it was in EQ, not nearly as important. I've already stated that the melee line decreases warden dps so im not going to get into that. One more thing that gets me angry. When i played EQ1 i had a lot of fun kiting mobs. It looks like with the new Fury AAs that are coming out they are going to have that ability as well. They get enhances to their snare spell (55%) plus they get increased combat run speed (35%), and it makes it so you can kite almost any mob. I was kiting 69 ^^^ heroics in bonemire and not getting a single scratch on me. I kited some named mobs in TT, They didn't have a chance. Fast casting spells, plus the ability to outrun mobs in combat = probably what will be the best soloing class in the game. Throw in the fact that they now have a line of roots. What is so special about warden AAs again? oh yea, you spend 25 aa points to do LESS damage with a sword. Message Edited by Sylphier on 11-07-2006 05:05 PM
The AA I'm intereted in taking now the the final ability in the root line. It's the ability to make your group immune to roots and MOST knockbacks. What does most mean? If this means no knockbacks from epics this line will be well worth it. Plus you can cross over and take the mit buff too. The only thing I'm concerned about is what MOST knockbacks means. Does that mean everything but on epics? If that were the case it would be useless. But on the other hand it can be very powerful. Can someone take this ability and test it out because I'd love to know what MOST knockbacks means.
How is it throwing away 3 AA points??? I wasted 8 AA's to get to heal crits, does that make it worth it? Some people think so. And again with the melee thing....it's not the only line. Continue to root and nuke...we get an enhance to our snare, to our roots, and to our movement speed. Flowing thought is easy to get but all the info i've heard is that regen from stuff like spirit of the bat, godking etc doesn't count to the flowing thought cap because it's not actually Flowing thought! So yes useful! If ya don't like melee line don't take it!
I would be interested to know what your str and int were at when you got those numbers. Personally I think I will like the melee line because it seems I spend most of my time curing. With the melee line I will be able to cure and dps at the same time without missing a beat.
Frostbane, I am happy you are very pleased with what is going on. I understand I do not have to take the melee line, and I won't. It's a personal choice and I'm looking at it from my personal playstyle. Roots - I don't solo. The extent of my soloing is getting a mob off of me while I harvest. Whatever my root line is based off of is sitting under 200/350. Putting into root AAs isn't worth it to me. Spores - I would never put points in Spores. I've gotten to where I don't even use spores. That spells costs me more agro and deaths on body pulls than I can account for it being worth it. As far as meleeing goes, I'm usually as max distance from the tank as I can get in fights to avoid KBs and AoEs, so it's not worth me putting into melee. Besides, I have this nasty habit of not watching my own health. I did try the KoS Str line, but specc'd right back out of it as I didn't like it. Putting points into Rez AAs? I don't think so.... I don't think I need to elaborate on that subject. What does excite me? Spirit of the Bat AA. Good one. Putting into SoW... ok, not overly necessary, but looks kinda fun to have 45% run speed. What I would take up that doesn't excite me? Cures. Not exciting at all! But, those AAs will help me be a better healer and I will take them up. I understand nothing is set in concrete. I understand this fully, but I'm just throwing it out there that "my playstyle" does not agree with alot of this stuff. I know there are many Wardens out there that are very excited about the CA AAs, but I am not one of them. Looking at it all, the only fun AAs I see is Spirit of the Bat upgrade and SoW upgrade... and that's a bit sad for me. :smileysad: But the good thing is I'm making an alt, and at least I have advance warning on where the AAs are taking me on my next persona. It will also give me a chance to let this stuff sink in on my Warden and get used to it all. P.S. I am sincerely happy for those of you happy with the CA AA lines. I think it's a cool idea with the CA's, but I didn't want it to happen to my favorite class! pffft
So I beta buffed a Warden today, since they were one of the 2 priests I haven't spent a decent amount of time testing. I noticed that the beta buffer gives a lame 1 hand hammer, so I decided I'd start my testing by soloing blackscale sepulcher (to get a maul keke). My first setup was for melee. I got my str up to 186 (not that great), took the mitigation bonuses, combat arts, and melee crits. Because of my low str in relation to my int, the combat arts suffered significantly. I ended up just tanking and using the spells instead. After clearing the first room and hall using that method, I wasn't satisfied and wanted to try somethin else. The next time I went 8-4-8-4int, upgraded both roots, mitigation buffs, spirit of the bat, and spores (jic I guess). This method was a lot better. The 1s cast times are a trip, I usually play a 70 wizard nowadays so I'm used to double rootage. Using that method I generally rooted the group and burned em down one at a time (letting them come at me and tanking em when they r almost dead). It was deffinitely a lot faster this way. I even accidentally pulled 3 groups (each group consisting of a ^^^ and a ^^), tried to run to zone but they didnt peel, and ended up beating them all anyway. Fast casting roots enable you to react a lot quicker, even though 1 second may not seem like that much of a reduction. I didn't even have power problems til the third group, and each group had a healer in it too. Anyway, I had what I consider a successful test. The only reason you'd want to take the combat arts is so you can do more damage while healing... if you have the time to do damage, or have master spells and good int, there really is no reason to be using the combat arts. The mitigation bonuses are pretty large, as a leather clad priest I was able to tank 4 heroic mobs at a time (with sandstorm of course) which I imagine would have been difficult with 800 less mitigation (I couldn't do it on my Fury on beta who is much better equipped). The root bonuses are not only fun, they are useful too; they allow for much quicker reaction times, which goes well with the druid classes. I was able to keep several adds rooted at a time without hampering my ability to keep myself alive and kill the mob I was fighting, that would have been a lot more difficult had I spent 2x the amount of time rooting. So my complaints would be that spell quality should have an impact on the combat art aa's and there should definitely be an aa to reduce the recast timer of nature's ally (that would be a fun bonus).
My favorite selling points.... Enhance: Regenerative Spores - increases trigger percentage by 1% per rank up to rank 5 Adept 3 is 8% for Regenerative Spores. Enhance: Spirit of the Bat - increases power regeneration by 2, increases agility by 10% per rank up to rank 5 Adept 3 is 9.4 in-combat power regeneration. Now every rank increase it by 2. Enhance: Protecting Grove - improves reuses speed by 3s per rank up to rank 5 Enhance: Death Interventions - improves reuse speed by 10% per rank up to rank 5 Nature's Regrowth 10min recast - five ranks decreases it to 6min 40s Tunare's Watch 5min recast - five ranks decreases it to 3min 20s Reformation - adds an additional death intervention trigger Show in both Nature's Regrowth and Tunare's Watch Message Edited by Scigster on 11-08-2006 08:29 AM
From playing around in beta I've found a really good setup for EoF AAs. I'll share them with you: Enhance cure trauma: 5 points This is a must for every raiding warden. If any warden doesn't take the cure lines and max them out they must be complete n00bs and have no understanding at all of how EQ2's combat system works. 7.5% extra mit - 525 mit Enhance cure nox: 5 points Same - 15% extra resists - 1050 resists Enhance Cure Arcane: 5 points Same - 15% extra resists - 1050 resists Enhance Cure elemental: 5 points Same - 15% extra resists - 1050 resists Enhance Verdant Grasp: 5 points Same - 525 mit and 1050 resists Enhance Trapping vines - 5 points Now here's where I differ and went a different route then others. It's a means to an end and plays into Warden's strength. Our roots. It goes down to a 1 sec cast time with it being harder to resist. Very nice for soloing or trioing with 2 wizards (I do that a lot). Enhance Spirit of the Wolf - 5 points I LOVE this AA. With 5 points into the ability the run speed goes up to 45%. This is almost as fast as a horse. It reminds me of T5 running around super fast and for that I love it. I'll need to test whether jboots or sow totems stack with it again. Thank you devs for giving us our T5 speed back. In T5 I used to run around with sow totem, sow and jboots and they all stacked. I loved it. Enhance Braken - 5 points Same as trapping vines. 1 sec cast and great group duoing/trioing with wizards. That's how I got about 4 lvls back in t6 when our roots almost never broke. I'll have to test it out to see if the points help the roots not break though. Nature Walk - 5 points This AA has soooo much freakin potential it's crazy. Immunity to roots and most knockbacks. Most people assumed it doesn't work on epics... I'm not so sure. I believe unless the knockback is part of the encounter (hurler) then it should work. I need to test it out in raids which I haven't had time to do. Imagine not worrying about knockback in raids. No having to tank put his back to a wall, and then having the mobs run in the wall.... then having him have to pull them out and risk getting knocked around the room. You can now just tank them in the middle of the hall and never have to worry about knockbacks ever again. If the ability only works on 50% of knockbacks it will still be a must for G1 wardens. Immunity to roots is nice too. NO more tank pulling and getting rooted and dying too. This is also a buff. You cast it once and it affects group forever. No recasting it needed. Enhance Patron of the Forest - 5 points A side bonus of taking Sow is you can branch off and take Patron of the forest for 5 points. Very nice mit increase for crushing AoEs. Downsides to this path No Regenerative Spores upgrade proc %. I'll miss that AA but I believe the no knockback, if it works on most epics, will outweigh having the extra proc %. The other downside is no Spirit of the Bat upgrade. This one i'm not so worried about. I generally cast it on the tank and our G1 has Coercer + Dirge in it so our guard is fine on power. Really all that's lost is the extra agility.
Since when does spores cause aggro??? I've been on zillions of raids where our tank makes a body pull and has to run 20 meter's or more and i watch spores proc and i've NEVER had a mob run my way. I believe your mistaken on that...sorry to say. If you don't solo, and having the ability to up someones mit by 1k (all the cures) is worthless to you, what is your playstyle??? I don't want to seem mean or rude, but these AA's are really nice, and i don't see how anyone can say that there isn't something in them that helps your playstyle... To you mike, thats a nice looking AA spread. I believe that you once said you used the melee line from KoS? If so i know it's kinda worthless but you can spend 15 points in the melee line (pick up wolf form increase) and maybe the AE (never know when it will help). ANd then a few more for melee crits, it's a nice addition to the double attacks. Although my first spec will be for nature walk because well if it works....AWESOME! And i'll pick up spores/spirit of the bat upgrades....our guilds MT almost cried when i showed him screens of the mit buff's on cures and the increase to spores and spirit!
Goozman, thank you for your post. It was nice to see a different angle on the AAs and what can be done minus the CA AAs. Frostbane, I'm trying to figure out where in my post I said the cures were worthless. And I'm not trying to be rude, but please read through a post before attacking. I'll quote myself: "What I would take up that doesn't excite me? Cures. Not exciting at all! But, those AAs will help me be a better healer and I will take them up. " I'm not going to cover the whole spores thing again here in this post. There is a post for it further down on this forum and this is getting off topic. In fact, I think that I will back out of this thread now. It doesn't feel nice when someone keeps tearing apart my posts. I usually don't mind being critiqued and I find my gameplay has improved by people contradicting what I say, but I don't like it when people don't actually read my posts then comment on what they *sped read* thru. Cheers!
