monk dps isn't that great, and i don't care what anyone says. i'm lvl 50 and have pretty good weapons, and pallies with the 2hander from heart of fear quest are matching me dps wise. http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=119133113 ignore the armor, i bought it so i didn't hafta look like an idiot while i craft/harvest. my armor is par for a 50 monk. berserkers are not matching me in dps tho. they are putting me to shame. i have bakindo's raging tiger, which as far as i can tell is the highest damage atk we get (703 is my highest hit) and my test subject was decked out in app2's. the 2hs plate ppl get from heart of fear access is pretty nice. with it, this berserker did more dps than me w/o really trying. i couldn't click buttons fast enough to catch up. the fact that ^^^ mobs are "too powerful" for lunging mongoose to hit doesn't help. guardians don't slouch on dps either. try parsing one that's on the back of a mob.
I was able to get a parse log of two solo encounters fighting the same mob 2 days apart, the first log taken on January 29th, the second on February 4th (both pre and post Agility nerf). It would have been nice to have known when this was coming, so that Monks could have taken multiple logs of similar mobs then parsed averages before and after the nerf, but since we didn't have that advantage these kinds of logs are the best we're going to be able to work with. I have highlighted the areas which seem to have been affected (mob attacks). January 29th, Pre-Nerf: February 4th, Post-Nerf: To summarize this report, it would appear that damage taken by Monks has at least doubled due to the changes made to Agility. Edit: Fixed date of second parse to correct date. Message Edited by Babayaaga on 02-05-2005 07:54 AM
OT but just a little food for thought. Group was 34monk, 32 Mystic, 32 Ranger, 33 Guardian. We were killing fairies for EE bag quest and that night I kept losing agro so I told the Guardian to off tank one (80% of the pulls were 2xYellow^'s to me). Guardian had her mob dead when the Ranger + Me would have ours to 20%... Before the barrage of questions, yes I used all my combat arts on most fights, my weapons are/were white-orange. Not really a true rant or anything, just I see the uber DPS argument thrown alot by Guardians . The higher DPS comes from Guardian access to heritage weapons (which generally outclass most items from their Tier), or thats the best guess I could find .
Baybayaaga: Nice chart, however some other thing to think of. If I am reading the chart correctly, for some reason the second fight the monk did less damamge per second, allowing the fight to 23 more seconds. ALso you did about 250 more points of damamge in the last fight suggesting that the last mob had more hitpoints, both suggest there was a difference in level between the two mobs.
I noticed this as well, however, I need to also mention that while Statalyzer is very good at parsing the majority of elements, it will not log damage from certain "special" styles we do (from HO's, etc.). That being said, in all of my examples through Statlyzer there is generally difference between damage I deal on identical mob types and levels. In other words, it will not be able to give us an accurate figure of how many HPs a mob has, because certain HO damage point figures are not recorded in our log files. All drones have conned the same level color to me, however, this doesn't mean that it is possible they weren't a level apart (I will have to check these mobs by delving them next time I'm in EL), but for the purposes here, it is the other events that are of particular concern. If you look at the "Hit", "Miss" and "Hit%" columns, you will see that there is a dramatic difference before and after the patch. It would almost appear that our "Damage Avoidance" is broken. All classes have a chance to avoid damage, monks were just supposed to be better at it. According to this log, a Mob is successfully hitting more often than it is missing, which is not supposed to be how a Monk works... as we were told we would work, Message Edited by Babayaaga on 02-05-2005 10:35 AM
The closest I would be able to parse would be a 14th level Shadowknight (a twink of mine). I don't feel this would be a fair comparison mainly because of the level difference. However, I have never kept log files of her prior to the patch, so I could not make a comparison either. I would very much like to see a log of a plate class though of similar level (34). Message Edited by Babayaaga on 02-05-2005 09:33 AM
Good data and keep it coming. I am going to raid today. If i get a chance to tank I will parse it and post the results.
You honestly think that the same mob hitting for 200% more damage and hitting 2x as much as its missing is our class working as intended? Even if its a lvl higher, you still think that's kosher?
I was under the impression you were "just going to ignore me" You continue to read things into what I and even other people say. I was pointing out the flaws in that single sample, several runs would have to me provided, in addition the agl adjustment applied to everyone, I would like to see that comparision as well.
I don't read into anything, you just fail to understand several things about the game. The fight lasted longer after the patch because the nerf to agility also affected our accuracy, so we miss more, thus in the same amount of time we do less damage. Couple this with the fact that mobs now have higher stats, you'll see where the DPS descrepency comes from. So I suggest that is why he did less dps, not a difference in lvl of the mob (even if there was a one lvl difference). The problem with parses, as I've stated numerous times is the fact that the game is so broad as far as mobs/weapons/armor/con that it would take literally hundred of thousands of logs to get a good median value that meant anything. Looking at one, or two or even 100 parses from one person doesn't show a true representation of any class. Even with that said you can immediately tell from the two parses posted that a significant change has occured. 200% more damage and 100% less evasion is a big hit to our class. I'm trying to ignore you, but sometimes you say things that I feel need to be responded to.
OK where did I say, anything implying this "You honestly think that the same mob hitting for 200% more damage and hitting 2x as much as its missing is our class working as intended? Even if its a lvl higher, you still think that's kosher?" in the my analysis on his parser?
For the life of me, I've been trying to find some useful, contructive post by you. Alas, I haven't seen any. All I've seen is your posts trying to say the opposite of what 99% of the brawler community has said. Heck, I'm not even sure if you play a monk or bruiser because everytime someone asks you, you convienantly avoid the question. I'm curious. You want proof that something's wrong. I want you to give us proof that there isn't something wrong. The vocal majority of people posting are those who have been here a very long time and have always spent time helping and communicating with the community. Seriously, what would Gage and other high level monks have to gain from trying to start a fear monger campaign against these changes? The majority of posters on the issue range from 20-45, who immediately noticed a problem after logging in after the patch. The "gut feeling" and "observations" of this community means more than someone who comes in and tries to disprove every post here. How about you give us some reason to doubt our collective findings, rather than wasting forum space trying to piss people off.
I guess because my initial reaction was WOW and yours was "oh we need more of this and this and this". Regardless of the who/what/why that parse shows that we are significantly worse off than we were before the patch, I don't see how any monk could refute that.
I have posted my proof before but here it is again http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=26408#M26408 This change wasn't done to make agility worthless; it was to make huge amounts of agility mean less. Why? To put it simply, being in a group where you could attain huge amounts of agility (200-300 points) made you next to invulnerable. The people severely affected by this change are the ones who used this as their main style of play. Are easy mobs suddenly godlike? Green and grey group mobs will no longer miss you every time, but that's okay; grey mobs were not meant to be zero threat, just no reward. Did it affect scout tanking? Yeah, because scouts aren't supposed to be main tanks. Did it hurt monk/bruiser tanking? Avoidance is no longer the guaranteed success it was with uber-AGI, but personal experience, testing, and talking to other players indicates that monks and bruisers received the same proportionate impact as other tanks did. The brunt of monk/bruiser avoidance comes from their Deflection skill. Our play tests indicate the person who solos or plays in a small group, taking on suitable challenges (solo mobs, advanced solo mobs, lower-level group mobs) can still chew through mobs about as well as ever. Trying to solo group ^^ will get you into trouble, but then again, it should; they're made for groups. Groups with a monk/bruiser as tank still do quite well, and we've observed this at the high-end game as much as in the 20s. We're continuing to test these changes ourselves to make sure it didn't end up being too severe, but so far we haven't found evidence of that. We're by no means trying to turn a blind eye to your opinions, we're just trying to verify them with hard data. Remember that there are a lot of factors that go into how a fight turns out. What level and con is the mob you're fighting? What buffs are you using? What quality are your arts? What gear are you using? How good are your weapons? We will keep on watching your feedback and testing the AGI change. We have no desire to ruin anyone's fun or make the game unplayable; quite the opposite. But at the same time, we want a game that provides a challenge. We're committed to making changes that keep EverQuest II fun and challenging over the long haul, even if the changes receive some backlash at first. =========================== Moorgard EverQuest II Community Guy Now prove him wrong.
Wow. Totally.. wow. Again, avoiding my questions and using your usual canned response to Moorgard's post, because he can't be wrong. Since you avoided my question for a second time, I'd be willing to bet you're not even a monk. I think I'll just take Gage's advice and ignore you. Thanks for adding nothing helpful to the conversations. Message Edited by WackyDakky on 02-05-2005 02:54 PM
You are correct but all classes are affected by this, I take more dammage so does my guardian and pally frinds. Most are complaining that monks are now imballanced because of this adjustment, I have not seen that.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. Mama you are such a tool. How about this: I have all white gear @ 50 (except 3 items which are blue but have 9agi and 10agi respetively), I have lvl 50 rare weapons, I took all agility traits. My 157 unbuffed agility and 3742hp and 7200ac = I tank worse after the patch. That proves to me that they changed agility period, not huge amounts of buffed agility since I solo worse (no buffs) and in groups w/o an agility buffer I still suffer (as I do with an agility buffer). Oh and I think I've had 300+ agility ONCE in my 42 days played. I don't need to prove anything to Moorgard, I proved it to myself and now I don't play Gage anymore. Case closed.
Maybe that's because you don't have enough gameplay experience, so maybe you should post after you do especially since you are a ranger and not even a monk. Why do you post in our forum again? Message Edited by Gage-Mikel on 02-05-2005 12:55 PM
