As long as they don't add an SG power drain then we will be fine on power feeding the raid Also I like the idea of giving us a temp buff like time warp for a melee base group
@ Michael Baker, There you go. You answered your own question. In a raid I am about as you. Though never go over 2m. I guess it's a matter of gearing for me. But a good not the best but good illusionist goes way over coercer parse. 500k -800k more with no trying. But as everyone saying it's a matter of a group set up.
Sigh. Please do not listen to OP. Klandicar is probably the most power intensive fight this expansion, and it's challenging but not impossible, and that's with 2 Coercers in the raid. I don't know about you, but I like challenging. You sound like you want everything to be easy, like it was when you could flow two groups at the same time. There is nothing wrong with a Coercer's power feeding capabilities in my opinion. We've lived through enough Curses on Klandicar, with only 2 Coercers in raid and not had too many issues with power. Like I said, challenging- better than impossible and more enjoyable than easy. I don't think we had our Mystic in for Spirit Tap either. edit- I forgot to mention, our pulls on Klandicar were both before and after he was changed . Both times were fine.
lol please don't quote latin to obfuscate your reply. If I'd wanted to learn latin I would go back to school, not play EQ2! There are far more digestible ways to assert the 'logical fallacy' argument. It's even more incongruous when you insert a smattering of smack talk like 'areyoumadbro' And it switches people off rather than further your argument.
he just wanted to sound smart :/ anyway, Basically what Bigsx said, all fights are perfectly fine power feeding as they are (even before more nerfs). it was just "hard" but still just fine. no need to change an easy class to an even easier class.
Honestly, now I kind of agree with the sentiment that things are fine right now even after the nerf. Then again, on Klandicar specifically, that fight is pretty lol as long as you bring the right classes. Then again for all I know the coercers were cursing me and flowing my group like mad. Didn't look that way, though. All the change means is that Illies might have to spec a little differently to compensate on specific fights, and people have to be a little more conscious of their own mana usage. Not a bad thing, tbh.
They never do till somebody tells them. In our guild nobody really knew about this change. So I had to speak up in a raid chat to cry: watch out for power ticks on protector fight. There are plenty who fights ranged and stay ranged and could care less about power as long as corecers are present. And only handful would carry power items. It's true that in new zones if you follow the script you can avoid power drains (they are seems mostly correct positioning issue and very far in between) and some such but people in general don't care if it's an easy fight. So now my approach is if they are out of power b/c of their own reckless behavior in fights they are on their own. I have to prioritize now whos power bar to watch and who gets power first and foremost.
Not quite, but yeah. I'm trying to keep my suggestions manageable by a Dev team mid-cycle. Otherwise, I think the only really good suggestion I had there was Thought Snap. That's actually a pretty neat idea. To keep it within current mechanics, though...hmm. An idea, what about borrowing part of the HO item buff coding to instead pull the number of HO's from, say, a 10s timeframe and transfer it to a decaying buff? Something like, number of classes in a complete HO, added up from all HO's from one group, over 10s, then xWDB or xCB static values? Just spit balling, 15 WDB. So if you get 3 HO's of 3 classes each, you get 135 WDB to the group. Have it either good for a set period with a long CD, or have it build stacks that decay over time, with a new buff overwriting the old one? A bit more complex than I think is feasible at this point for the coders, but could make for an interesting mechanic. A pain in the ***, but in a melee heavy group with everyone paying attention and the right numbers...
Yep, said exactly that pre-Klandicar nerf in the second paragraph of my OP. Doable, but absurd. You sound like you didn't actually read my post. And, really, that's pretty much how the rest of my responses are going to go. Heck, we Flawless'd Klandicar this week, so... Yeah. Look at the date on the OP. Look at the date on your post. OP was same day as Flow nerf, before any other changes went in. The thread moved on a bit since then. It wasn't to obfuscate. It was an exercise in entertaining myself. They're all logical fallacies, most of which anyone with a high school level vocabulary should know. You didn't read the sentence. It was a paraphrase of the other's comment. A fairly accurate paraphrase, dipped in sarcasm and tied back to the base premise. Mountbatten, I pretty much agree with you, now that there's been time for things to settle out and some changes to problem encounters. Which leads back to the other question, how do we make it more interesting and less whack-a-mole?
I at first had large reservations about this nerf, but after reading that raiding coercers are finding that they are coping with the current power drain fights, well it is a small relief. However it does seem as though the devs are trying hard to make the class less desirable, when it should be more desireable to play it. (EV charms(I personally think it should have been equip able by coercers only as we always have to give ours away to dps), Power regen capability reduction, velocity changes, etc) My take on it would be getting a little more to the roots of the class and the control effects actually work on epics again. Time them with immunity during certain times in the script. Raid bosses show a control effect counter buff so that others know that it has been hit and how many times. That would be fun, from my perspective. Make people work together to time things. Either that or change the stuns/stifles/dazes/mez/fear to autoattack debuffs on the mob when epic(like haste/flurry/etc). They are massive mobs a control effect shouldn't bring them down fully, but neither should it be completely un-noticeable) It may be something huge to code, but it would add something new in terms of a fun mechanic. That can be utilized by all classes but should be thought of as something to help incentivise a control effect laden class as the coercer. On thinking of it a little more, have the boss have a buff on it that has a control effect counter that will render any further effects detrimental, and make the boss decide which effect it will have. Completely an example and only used to show some idea of what my bad writing is trying to say (maybe even a little contradictory to what I just said too hehe). Boss 1: SuperAngryMobGuy Effect Name: Controlling Demeanor Description: Controlling Demeanor will allow a total of 15 of the following effects to be stacked Stifle, Mez, daze, fear.(make these situational to the boss, change them around depending on the boss to make it interesting). SuperAngryMobGuy is immune to the following effects: root, stun, etc(other control effects). They will reduce the effectiveness of SuperAngryMobGuy's Attack speed by ___ per effect/by effectiveness(leaving it open). Any further effects used on SuperAngryMobGuy will reduce the effectiveness of the current control by dispelling 2 effects off of SuperAngryMobGuy. All effects will be dispelled every __ to __ seconds. (make it random or fixed) I used attack speed in the example, but I would like to say it could be anything that is not gonna be completely debuffed beyond cap by the raid. Agro management is nice and I support its implementation fully in raids. It has always made me feel that enjoyable that part of the raid with timed agro adjustments that tanks can't pull back that make a bad drop in agro something more recoverable. As the main class I play, the coercer is something I love in this game, make it lose it's "charm" to me and you lose me as a player. Please less nerfs to peoples classes, I barely see brawlers/shamans anymore as they have become so much less desirable as a class in heroic play that I have seen recently anyway.
It could be a simple as just adding a temp buff of 100% flurry to all auto attacks in the group. Given haste is normally running at 200+ that would put two attacks in an 8 second span? make it what? 10 second duration? make it resetable like TW is. Gads i would love to have some illys on my raid force that could out parse me esp by 400k normally im 500k ahead ZW and on each pull... maybe we would farther along than we are in TOV... /sad panda
I just wish Coercer's offered something more to groups than just power. The Coercer is more enjoyable than the Illusionist because we don't have to manage a pet if we choose not to and if our charmed pet dies it's fine plus I love all the re-actives that they have. I just can't justify switching from an Illusionist though simply because of Flash of Brilliance, Time Warp and Destructive Rampage. Maybe I could part ways with Chromatic Illusion but it would be tough.
that's what this thread should have been about. but oh well cause it wasn't as Voxom said you could get more benefits from say a swash then a coercer in a melee group (other then power) tbh I personally would be fine if they changed velocity just back to dps instead of MA (100 dps spell is nice). it wouldn't be what I want, but it would be good enough for the moment
I would love for enchanters to get something like bards have with RO/VC, i.e. a more engaging/direct way to contribute something to the group. Buffrat and I were discussing that a while ago and he had some neat ideas. One of the reasons I prefer my Troub so much more than my Illy at the moment is because on the Illy I just feel like I'm a glorified temp clicky. Even if it is just a silly little thing, I love the challenge to push myself and get bigger VCs as a bard. I don't have any such motivation with my enchanter other than to try to time Time Warp properly. True it may just be me, and I am pretty bad at Illusionist, but there has to be a reason so many guilds are crying out for enchanters right now.
guilds have been crying for enchanters for several years now, it's just a class that people always need. and few enjoy to play. and it's nothing new it's always been like that. not saying giving them something wouldn't fix the problem, just saying people seem to be acting like guilds looking for chanters is a new thing when it's not
I'm not suggesting it is a new phenomenon, I have been around long enough to know utility has always been high in demand and short in supply. I was just offering my perspective as someone fairly new to the enchanter archetype, and really just echoing the sentiment that enchanters aren't all that interesting to play compared to other classes that I've played.
My main on EQ1 is an Enchanter and I can say that splitting the class up was probably the worst decision ever made for them in EQ2. Enchanters are the most enjoyable (opinionated) class to play in EQ1 and in EQ2 they basically said "Do you want to charm and have mana regn or do you want to buff and (nonexistant) mez/cc?" I know it made it very hard for me to play an Enchanter in EQ2 but things change I suppose.
Enchanters were fun to play when Perpetuality was a powerful ability. Making Double Cast more beneficial to reactive type spells may make this class interesting to play again. Regarding power flows, I think they should be more powerful, not less. Flowing power is hardly fun in its current state. I like the idea of +group power being attached some kind of lesser damage spells.
