calling all 400 transmuters... hoping for tinkering. 400 tinkerers hoping for transmuting.

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Sounds to me like you're selling your fragments, powders, infusions and mana. Why?
If you're selling that stuff then somebody else is making the profits from your hard work.

Vannin wrote:

You assume he plays a class that has good adornments. The bulk of all adornments sell close enough to the market value of the components as to make the added risk/wait of selling the final product not worth it. Across all 9 tradeskills I only sell adornments from the tailor, the armorer and another class that slips my mind at the moment and even there it's only 1 or two heavily heavily sold adornments from their lists.

I can see and agree with a lot of the reasons not to allow multiple tradeskill classes, but really that's a subject for another thread.
This thread is about allowing access to both secondary tradeskills, and the best reason against it that I've seen is that transmuters should be ok without tinkering because they can make so much money... I'm sorry but i don't really think that should be the determining factor. It's definately not true for all transmuters, and the effort put into leveling each individually is just as individual as the benefits recieved from picking one over the other.

Here's a scenario that proves the imbalance between the two professions. Imagine the 'perfect' raid force.... it's pretty obvious to imagine that this raid force would require every single member to be a master tinkerer except for 1 member selected to transmute. They may not even allow the 1 transmuter along in raids, but maybe he'd be an alt that would be parked outside the instance to transmute the items between fights.

Deson wrote:

If he has a class that that doesn't make particularly good adornments, then it's time for an alt.
I've never levelled a crafter with the aim of making adornments though I've got Alchemist, Armourer, Carpenter, Provisioner and Sage covered at max for adornments. I sell enough with Armourer, Provisioner and Carpenter to make gaining the supplies a headache Adornments are pretty much the only thing worth selling on any of my crafters apart from the Carpenter, thanks to one click crafting. You need to be able to check/amend prices regularly to sell stuff though
There's more than enough competition out there to make it a challenge, but so long as you're happy not having everything in the game passed to you on a plate then it's fun. Transmuting and adornment making shouldn't be some magical route to easy plats!

Choosing either tinkering or transmuting is in option. Keep it that way. The system is fine as it stands.

Meirril wrote:

<PERK>
If that came to this game, I'm buying a year's subscription in advance -- IF -- it was time consuming and tedious as farming in other MMOs (and I state this because as soon as farming becomes easy, your time spent farming and selling the crops/plants would be next to worthless. In EQ2 it needs to be for higher end gear making [MC or higher], to ensure the prices will always be worth the time spent in planting and harvesting).
BTW, if other MMOs that aren't as polished as EQ2 can have multiple tradeskill classes, EQ2 can also, and also not breaking the game in the process.
That other MMO I played had these choices:
Timber
Mining
Planting
Ship-building
Foundry
Alchemy
Sewing
You could pick three, and each three had extra points you got every 5 levels to add to a form of AAs to make carrying more mats possible; planting/harvesting a tier above their level; to having mana enough to harvest for a long time without exhaustion (with clothing and jewellry to help).
There really isn't any excuse for not letting folks have more than 1 tradeskill let alone transmute and tinker (there, 3 choices from the start).
</PERK>

Hi,
just wanted to throw in my opinion...
What i'm against:
Tinkerer being able to transmute things.
Transmuter being able to craft Tinkeritems.
What i want:
Tinkerer (of approbriate Skill & Level) being able to commission the Transmuters for their no-Trade Stuff.
Transmuters (of approbriate Skill & Level) being able to use some Tinkerer-only-items.
I think that would be a solution which would not destroy class balance.
Regards, theriatis.

theriatis wrote:

Transmuters being able to commission the breakdown of any no-trade items from anyone has been addressed. It seems you have a better chance of being able to get the ability to skill up both tinkering and transmuting on the same toon before you willl see transmuting commisioning occurring. And what exactly does "Tinkerer (of appropriate skill and level)" mean with regards to saying "Here's my no-trade stuff, break it up for me?". Am I missing something here?
Transmuters (of appropriate skill & level) being able to use Tinkerer-only-items....well I guess when the transmuter gains tinkerering skill of 400 (current cap on tinkerering skill) they will be the appropriate skill & level to use all the tinker only items. Until then they are neither of the appropriate skill or level....which is of course the point of this thread to begin with.

theriatis wrote:

In my opinion, this would be plausible (and not break balance) if the skill needed by a transmuter were higher than the skill needed by a tinkerer. For example, if a Troll Snot Flinger were 150 tinker skill to use, it could be 200 transmuter skill to use with a higher percentage of going kabloowie. That would provide the tinker a market to sell his TSF (transmuters can't make it even if they could use it), provide a 'reward' for the skilling of the transmuter, and wouldn't upset the balance too far. But, the success rate of use would have to be "adjusted" for the non-tinker's use with a success rate on anything no higher than 75%. For example, again, if the TSF had a 75% success rate for the tinker, the transmuter would have a 65% success rate.

Tinkering and Transmutting have very little to do with each other so I don't see why we shoudln't be able to level both if we chose to. Tinkering has no money making aspects, it's about making toys for your toon to use. Transmutting is about providing another way to take unneeded adventuring items out of the game, and finding a way to use the resulting materials. Without the adornments, xmuting wouldn't make money either. So while I don't agree that leveling one should automatically give you skill or usage priviledges in the other, I don't really see why you couldn't either level up both (after finishing with one first) or allow more tinkering items to be usuable by other toons, and therefore sellable (like food, with charges, consumption times, etc). I've also wondered what would be the ramifications if tinkerers would be allows to use items made by the xmuters to produce something that could be comissioned, or sold or something. But thats another topic I guess.

I admittly skipped through most of this .. But, I don't want Tinker/Xmuting on one Character ..
Possibly, purely selfish of me to a point since I just don't want to have to re-grind Tinkering on my Main.
But, even so I'd really rather have a few .. mmm .. *tweaks* .. to both secondary professions ..
My Wish list for Tinkering/Xmuting ..

• I'd like every single Tinkered item be use able by EVERYONE .. BUT .. I'd like to see a bonus applied if the user is a Tinker and that bonus be in skill ranges.
  • ie: One of those Summon Pet items. Lets pretend it's a lvl 20 item and it does 10-30 dmg per hit for 30 seconds. That's what Anyone would get when using the item. Now the same item being used by a Tinkerer would be 20-40 dmg per hit for 35 seconds if skill is 100 or over. An extra bonus if Skill is 400+ could be 30-50 for 40 seconds.
    
  • Of 'course a real lvl 20 item would probably be less dmg but I just pulled #'s out of thin air. I leave DPS balancing to the really OCD Devs.
• And, similar boosts for success chance verse fail on some of those odd tinkered items like Rez, Evac, CoTH etc ..
• I'd also like to remove all Adorns from both Tinkering & Xmuting but purely 'cause in my UBER wish list for Xmuting .. I'd rather see skill ups via "Smooshing stuff" (Xmuting items vs Crafting tons of useless T1 adorns).
  • But, at the very least remove the Adorns from Tinkering and give them to the Woodworkers.
    
  • Xmuting Adorns would be better suited for Weaponsmiths. *sigh*.
• Xmuting .. I'd like to see Xmuters either have a Commission System for Xmuting the [No Trade] items for others or able to create a [item] that can xfer the skill of the creator, with slightly less chance for a higher return, to anyone else.
  • ie: A charged item that can give a non-xmuter the skill level of the creator for the purpose of xmuting an item in the non-xmuters inventory.
    • [a skill of 300 xmute goo] used on a lvl 60 Fabled item will have a 10% less chance of a return for a Mana componet than if a real Xmuter with 300 skill 'smooshed' it.
• I'd also like to see a complete revamp on the entire Adorn system as it would apply to the division of Adorns to each of the 'Real' Tradeskills. ...

And, as I have to leave for a Dr's appt .. that's as clear as I can make it, which probably still isn't very good .. I know it's a confused jumble of thoughts but acck! "look at the time! I'm going to be late!"

Qandor wrote:

But why... Why is it fine as it stands? What effect does one skill have with the other that makes it wrong for both to be allowed on the same character?
I never really cared much until my current level locked character (68 with 138 AA atm). He's up to 305 transmuting now without using the broker to buy stuff for skill ups. The amount of effort it takes to level him is pretty crazy, and the cost to level him by using the broker would be equally crazy. The amount of in-combat tools he's losing by taking the more challenging secondary profession is the only thing that's more insane than the effort required to level him. I have put a lot of work into him and it bothers me quite a bit that by taking the more difficult profession, I'm actually making a weaker character.

I don't want anything 'given' freely to either tinkerers or transmuters. Allowing no-trade items to be transmuted via commission would just make me quit after spending so much time leveling a transmuter just so I could transmute my own no-trade items. I don't want to find some balance where being one gives you some of the benefit of the others. I know that's what the OP suggested, but I disagree. I strongly believe that being one should not lock you out from being the other. People willing to put in the effort should be able to reap the proper benefits. Tinkering is easy to level, and it can make your character signifigantly stronger. I don't think the sacrifice of taking up transmuting in the first place should also lock you out of being a stronger adventurer.

TheSpin wrote:

But why is it not fine as it stands?
It sounds like you have put alot of work into your toon but what about us who have 1 max muter and 2 max tinker i had to build them that way because thats how the game was made?
This is like the folks who ask to build the SUPER crafter want to be able to have more than one crafting ability but what about the folks who have 5 or more max crafters already how does this affect all the hard work we have put into all our toons over the last 4+ years?

Asif wrote:

Speaking as a "super crafter" it doesn't if you don't believe you deserve something extra for it as long as it takes the same investment. The only difference between a future being able to be all in one and now is the swap time and I'm more than fine with that.

Asif wrote:

As it is, transmuting is almost useless. That's not fine as far as I'm concerned. It just is the way it is.
I have max crafters in both. I'd like to see my transmuter be able to use tinker toys. Either let me level her up as a tinker and keep my investment in transmuting for whatever it is worth or give transmuters access to tinkered items just as if they were tinkers themselves.

Asif wrote:

Just gives you more opportunities per character.
Now instead of having to log in and out for each job, one character can do like 3 tasks before having to log off to get another toon to make other goods. Saves time; saves resources (our poor almost every weekend login/zone server crashes); and lets you develop your character further.
If you were a fighter, wouldn't it be sweet that you can make your armor, your weapons and spells??? Sure progression will be slower if you're tradeskilling 10 levels ahead so you can keep your toon in the best MC gear and adepts, but in the end it makes leveling 3 separate tradeskills more bearable.

I've been told that it was announced at FF that we'll be able to mute and tinker on the same toon.
Normally, I'd be all YAY THIS IS AWESEOME with this news if it wasn't for the fact that 3 weeks ago, I started farming for and leveling up my 80 jeweler/67 brigand to be my account's muter to I can keep DIYing my tradeskill stuff.
Now I'm madder than a hornet that this is happening and I've wasted time, plat, and the whole mental frustration of leveling up a muter, only to know that I will probably end up turning my level 80 raiding toon that is my alchemist and tinkerer into a muter.
If this muting + tinkering does happen, when is it going to happen? Next week? Next month? A few months from now? When the expansion releases in Feb.? I already have my muter to 306/400 and can almost mute level 67 stuff. I really didn't *need* a muter on my account, but I like being able to do my own stuff and not have to bother anyone.
I'm just totally bored in game now when I'm not raiding, and farming stuff for muting was something to keep me occupied for a month or so. I guess I can get my muter to 375 and just keep farming crap for when I can pick up muting on my main toon.

Ruckus@Unrest wrote:

With the expansion in Feb.

Rijacki wrote:

Thanks for the info!
I guess I'll keep up with my farming for leveling the muting on the toon that I never adventure on. Once I get muting 375, I'm done on this toon's leveling and he'll just be used between now and Feb. for making stuff for my main to use for adornments. I'll also keep farming on my main and passing crap over to my muter to break down. By the time Feb. does roll around and I can pick up muting on my main, I'll have many stacks of stuff already broken down for him to level up on.
It's double the effort for all this work, but it will keep me busy in game when I'm not raiding. Maybe I'll suck it up and level up a brawler to go shiny solo farming in heroic instances.

Rijacki wrote:

Is it actually possible to praise and thank Domino enough?