calling all 400 transmuters... hoping for tinkering. 400 tinkerers hoping for transmuting.

Deson wrote:

For the record, I'm against commissioned transmuting.
I disagree with your assessment on subclass skills. I don't think the choice was arbitrary but rather follows for form and function of EQ2. We have classes. You make choices. You can't do everything. In choosing to do one thing, you give up the opportunity to do something else. The same for adventuring classes, tradeskill classes and subclasses. The only real way to reinformce that idea is to introduce more subclasses. I can actually think of 1 subclass I'd love to see. I'd love to see a "farmer" subclass. Of course if that happened people would whine that they can't be a tinkerer/transmuter/farmer. Make another alt and have some fun. Honestly.

Meirril wrote:

I disagree with you on it fitting the form and certainly the functionality and readily admit that my direct response was based on what I thought was hypocrisy in a desire for comission transmuting. I would actually make more of it but I'm pretty sure we hashed all this out 2 years ago and much like listing the flaws of both subs now, I just don't have it in me to rehash it all anymore. I apologize, still disagree and hope it changes.
While it seems obvious from the name, what would a farmer do?New thread if needed.

Edit: Wasn't you. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=367229

AtomiC_WedgiE wrote:

I meant merchant and not broker. Looks like I was a bit confused.
And as soon as commissioned transmuting goes live there is no reason left to be transmuter with any adventuring toon. I will switch to tinkering on my defiler and roll a random carfter, level him to 80 and make him transmuter.

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

So, are you going to tell us why? Or are you just going to say no? Because if that's all you have to say, then my only needed response is:
YES!
What now?

Many high end raiders are currently tinkerer's. If it was changed to be able to do both I think quite a few would level both. I suppose there would be an advantage to those that farm low level treasured gear to sell, but there would certainly be no advantage to a more casual players other, then some money making, in such a change.

Paikis wrote:

if everyone can craft every item for every crafting class at all levels, why bother have any of the 9 classes at all? heck why not merge all adventure classes together as well? just think you could solo everything, and if you wanted to group you could and no one would have to worry about healing each other because they could do it themselves and everyone would be able to tank the mob if one person dies. It's just silly to merge things in a game that is supposed to have folks working together to accomplish things. Yes yes what about the solo folks, GO PLAY ELDER SCROLLS and let me have my social interaction no matter good or bad.

Deson wrote:

I started a new thread on gardening. I dropped the subclass idea in favor of making it more friendly towards the main crafting professions.

I have no idea how maxed transmuters are claiming to NOT make money. Surely the economies on servers can't be that drastically different?
I've never sold a fragment, powder, infusion or mana, why would I want to? I do though thank the many people that do sell them as I'm able to buy as many powders etc as I make myself. They all go towards turning round a decent profit.
As for being able to tinker and transmute, I say no. This is EQ2 not EQ1, the tradeksill classes are seperate, live with it.

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

By that statement you can also make teh assumption that SOE would have a responsibility to ensure the populations of ALL servers are very high thorugh marketing, advertising, recruiting, development, etc to ensure such interaction was possible for all players. The simple fact of the matter is they arent. The game has matured and crafting consolidation makes sense, class consolidation does not at this time although archetype consolidation does due to disparity in balancing which is another thread all together.
Another fact is that many people already have all the classes on different alts which is why heirloom was created in the first place. People interact socially because they want to and they enjoy it. People that are forced to interact with others solely to get them to do something for them is not really social interaction, its a business transaction. There is a HUGE difference.

So I can see that some people would want to keep these separate, others would like to have the option to level both secondary skills. Others have asked for tinkering items to lose their no-trade, tinkered-usable-only tags, and some have asked that transmuters be able to use corresponding level tinkered items. All I have seen form the No sayers is jsut that, No. There have not been that good of an argument from their side. The Yes camp seems to have the majority and have offered reasons why...
I hope the dev's are looking at this thread.

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

There is no logical progression from the ability to level all tradeskills to your assertions that they may as well just merge all the adventure classes. They are seperate and can be changed independantly without effecting the other. Sure, some people would level all those tradeskill classes. others (like me) would look at it and see way too much work, and wouldn't bother.
There is no merging here. Your sensationalist comments about merging adv classes are a waste of time. There is no reason why they shouldn't allow players to complete more than one trade class, they did it in EQ1, and even though this is not eq1, there has been no logical reason why it shouldn't be alllowed. Hardcore tradeskillers already have multiple toons and I know of atleast 7 people on my server who have max level toons with every trade anyways. All Im asking is that people be allowed to do it with one toon instead of 9.

Paikis wrote:

So what you want is a SUPER crafter that can make everything in the game thats how it sounds.
So why have differant crafting classes at all then?
Yes it is merging of classes no matter how you spin it !!!!

Asif wrote:

No it's not just as it isn't in FF or EQ1. Each class is a separate profession that must be acquired and leveled on its own. recipes must still be bought, each set of arts are still their own and the rewards of the profession still require the leveling of that profession.
Going to adventuring, it'd be as if you could be a guard and a wizard on the same character but when you were in guard mode, the game treated you only as such and same for wizard. You'd still have to gear them up separately, still have to level them, still have to acquire relevant skills. The only thing that would really be different would be the hurt on your storage from having to keep so much gear

I'd fully support allowing both tinkering and muting to be developed on the same toon. I think it would be a bit lame to just give either of those two a "freebie" access to any portion of the skills of the other one.
As others have stated, transmuting is exclusively a tradeskill oriented ability. Tinkering on the other hand has many useful adventuring tools. Therein lies the problem.
For those opposed to allowing both in the interest of character diversity, I would suggest you are looking at it the wrong way. The way it stands now, it's more like saying "well, you rolled up a woodworker therefore you can't be a ranger." I understand it's not a perfect comparison but the underlying problem of tradeskill vs. adventure benefits is still there. If tinkering items were all for sale for all classes to purchase and use like any other tradeskill this would be a non-issue. However, they aren't.
Tinkerers get benefits to adventuring that are excluded to a specific tradeskill (transmuters) but nobody else. Same holds true that tinkerers can't utilize a tradeskill choice because they opted to use the more adventure friendly option.
Let us level them both.

Vannin wrote:

I think you're misreading the claim to "NOT make money". It's not that we don't make money. We could make just as much adventuring, without having spent all that time & coin levelling up 'muting. Oh, wait, that's how we make our money after all. I mean, you go out, farm for items to transmute. And then they sell for about the same net worth. Either that, or maybe the Legendary/Fabled market on Nagafen is waaaaay more pricey than other servers.

Asif wrote:

No, merging of classes implies the removal of options, multi-classing increases the options for a single toon, nothing more.
Remember the next time you make dinner at home that in EQ2 you have to eat out everyday for all meals because you arent a provisioner....hmmmmm

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Hehe but i do have a provisioner

Asif wrote:

I have a provisioner myself as well as an alchemist (from back in the day when you needed resin's wash's and oils)

I'm all for one toon being able to do both. I currently have 6 level 80 cloaked crafters, as well as being a 400 tinkerer on my raiding toon. I'm currently doing the painful process of leveling up my 80 jeweler/67 jeweler to be a transmuter (~134). The only thing that this lowbie brigand can't do is transmute the no-trade legendary crap that my raiding main swashy picks up in instances. This lowbie brigand never leaves the crafting table to go out and adventure, and I have no interest in leveling up another adventuring toon to 80 (one adventuring class is enough for me.)
Being able to do both on one toon would just make leveling up my muter easier by not having to take a break and pass stuff via the shared bank to my lowbie brigand to mute. I'd still do the same things on my 80 alchemist/80 swashy that I'd do on my 80 jeweler/67 brigand: I'd make a ton of T1 adept 3s and mastercrafted armor/weapons and mute them down for infusions and powders on my swashy. I'd still mentor down and 2 box farm T1 zones for treasured stuff to make fragments on my swashy.
Being able to do both tinkering and muting just eliminates passing crap back and forth between toons, plus it allows us to be able to mute the occassional T8 legendary item from an instance (oh yay, another infusion of powder! Not gamebreaking!) BTW: I would not mute any of my fabled no-trade armor, because I'm hording that for appearance slots!
Honestly, I wish we could have done all 11 crafts on one toon. Life would be just easier to be able to make poisons/potions, food/drink, repair kits/house items, weapon adornments, and throwing weapons on one toon instead of having to log toons in and out to make stuff and pass via the shared banks. Add in being able to make tinkered stuff and mute stuff...I'd be in crafter heaven. My other 6 toons would then just be mules to hold raws/rares and house items, because my main's bank vaults are all filled with appearance slot stuff. I don't want to hear anything from people saying: well then, why can't we level up all 24 classes on one character? Adventuring is not the same as crafting, IMO.
I'm just missing a level 80 tailor, 80 sage, and 80 armorsmith. As someone who only plays one adventuring character 100% of the time, I have no real need for a tailor, sage, or armorsmith as a swashy, other than to make armor adornments. Since I raid, so I'll always get better armor than what an armorsmith can make. I've not worn mastercrafted armor in years.

Aneova@Kithicor wrote:

Therein lies the point...we all have multiple crafters solely for the purpose of being self sufficient. Now we are asking to consolidate that to the ability for a single toon so you dont have to log out and back in to accomplish something.
You should be able to open another crafter ability slot when you max one at the current cap. If you want to spend the time to level all the crafts on a single toon what difference is that really from doing it on all different alt toons?
Well, lets see....

• You get to ensure all your alts are in the guild and denoted as crafters so no one bugs you about grouping with those toons
• You get to manage your friends list on all those toons so you can still chat and such while mindlessly grinding away
• You have to take more time to log out and log back in if you decide to go adventuring
• You have multiple sources of information to maintain for which recipes books you still need or desire
• Check in-game for multiple toons to get crafting orders
• Remember who has what faction

And none of those things add any amount of fun to the game at all.