Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: Indeed, an apple is quite different from an orange, it would be a bit much to expect them to be the same. EQ2's engine is what it is. It is getting up to 8 or 9 years old now, I believe it is. A LOT has changed since then, you can't expect an almost 10-year-old engine to work the same as a newer one that has calls that are better optimized for today's hardware. Imago-Quem is doing a great job to try and update the engine to use some of these newer features that are better optimized. My PC has a decent-but-old dual core CPU but a brand spankin' new GPU. CPU shadows can easily send me into single-digit FPS territory. With GPU shadows I can cruise along with a loss of only 1-2 fps (I normally run 20-30 fps, somewhat lower in raids, large crowds, or areas with lots of particles). In other words, for me the game went from no shadows to some very nice looking shadows. Now, what happens when he gets 3.0 shaders in? With these your GPU will be doing in one feel swoop what 1.0 shaders took 10+ layers to do, saving time. Meaning 3.0 shaders may be an actual fps increaser (or fps-neutral), and that's not even considering that they look rediculously better. But you cannot expect these fixes here and there to bring an old engine up to the standard of a far newer one.
Lord_Ebon wrote: I appreciate the work he's doing, but I really think it's a lost cause. This game will never run acceptably. End of story.
Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: To your standard; runs fine enough for me and looks quite good (I run on a modified high quality). If you want something that runs better, go play it. You can't just wish for a new engine to magically come in and replace EQ2's to make it run better.
Lord_Ebon wrote: I WILL be playing Aion. It's not quite out yet, and I don't want to spoil the experience by playing too much beta. Yeah, and to my standards, I suppose. My standards and the standards of every WoW friend I've gotten to try this clunky mess. They all had the same complaints, and even the same word to describe it. Clunky.
Cusashorn wrote: No... EQ2's engine is older than EQ2 by several years because of the time spent developing the game. I think one of the Devs said exactly this at Fan Faire. I can't remember exactly how old it was, but if the game was released in Nov. 2004 (making it almost 5 years old), you can easily add on several years of development time from when the engine was initially created/started.
Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: Not to be too hard on WoW (I have friends that play/prefer it) but again, apples and oranges. You're going from a game where the polycount looks so much lower to one where the environment is a lot more realistic (or at least detailed). It's not going to run as well simply because of that.
Lord_Ebon wrote: Apples to oranges. You must like that term. Let's take another look at Aion. It's graphically superior in practically every way imaginable, and it runs much better. "Oh, but that's because it's newer!" Exactly. I know it's newer, and I know why it runs better. EQ2 is older. To make it run as well as Aion would probably require a total revamp of the engine. If EQ2 had as many players as WoW, they might actually be able to do that. But, let's face it. EQ2's tiny population warrants nothing more than a few tweaks. It's not going to get any real improvements.
Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: I do like that term, it fits well . But I consider the stuff Imago-Quem is doing a lot more than 'tweaks' -- tweaks is an optimization here and there. Redesigning things like he is doing definately falls under the catagory of 'real improvements' to me, those pictures showing the 3.0 shaders vs the 1.0 shaders / cpu shadows sure look different enough for me to consider them big improvements. Having a Dev dedicated to the graphics engine and updating it seems like a pretty decent comitment to updating the look of the game, to me. But I wouldn't consider EQ2's population tiny either. But in either case now we're just arguing semantics, so I'll won't derail the thread anymore =)
Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: Sorry, on that setup (much faster than mine and mine frequently runs over 100 fps if I turn shadows off) you should be silky smooth all day long. The problem lies elsewhere than the eq2 engine.
Acually for the record with a quad core 3.9 ghz proseser 9 gigs of ram and the new nvidia card i run on extreame quality 40 fps so even with its engine you just need the comp to back it up
shaunfletcher wrote: If it was elsewhere than the engine, the problem would happen with other games. But, guess what? It doesn't. Even Vanguard ran better than this game does.
Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: If it was not running acceptably then you wouldn't be playing it after the free 30 days ran out, granted we all know it does not run well at the higher setting for many people, but with the correct tweeks even befor the upgrades started most people could get at minimum average quality at resonable FPS, IMO that = Acceptable.... as Acceptable is a "C" grade. In otherwords the Bare minimum to pass.
Riliszkas@Splitpaw wrote: Accually with that set-up the problem IS with your Computer, most likly somewhere in the way it handles the its memory. Single Player games are VERY differant then MMOs, and LIVE MMOs are VERY differant then BETA MMOs, I was in AoC Beta for exsample, that game ran extreemly well with very few slow downs and graphical issues, the day it went live all that changed(same thing with LotRO Beta->Live)... so don't be betting on Aion to run as well live as it does in Beta.
to get back to the actual point brought up in the OP... I really feel SOE is being very dishonest with this sexy female thing. Last night I was browsing the art resources on http://www.station.sony.com/fanResourceCenter.vm, and yes the metal/fur bikini was in full force. But what really tickled my goat was the fact every single male figure in those promo/packaging images were wearing normal armour, and not just generic armour, recognisable armour sets from the game down to the last detail like how froglog armour deals with feet. The women, two straps of metal held together with sellotape. Now I've hear the arugment that well you have to give the artist creative leaway, from a mod I think, and if thats the case why is it only leaway for women and why is the male amour so accruate. I really do think that images like that place an unrealistic ideal in many people head as to what the clothing in this game is going to provide, and I think it might be some of the reason we see alot of these threads with people, rightly so in my head, holding up the game box and going 'well its on the box'. I really really dont want fur bikinis in this game, but the more I look at the surrounding art the more I feel people have at least ground to stand on over this point. Beta Video, not so much, its beta... but box art and promo art.. yes.
I would love to see that kinda armor that is in the alpha. I can't see why it would be hard to put in. But thats ok. i didn't go to school for that kinda stuff. I would love to see a human model that looked more real and not so... I don't even know how to put it. If they could soften the look a bit i think that would go far. Humans just seem miss shapen in the face and too angled in weird places.
Nayawk wrote: It's really not a morality thing as much as it is a technical thing I think, cause if you look the Female images in the link you provided, that are images of NPC Females also match just as well as the Male Armor matchs. My thinking is they didn't have the time or resources to make proper fitting, more revealing armor so they didn't...Remember it is far easier to match up pieces of relitivly loose fitting armor pieced, then it is to match up Spandex tight fitting pieces.
kela wrote: I don't even think its a technical issue.. I think its a very calculated marketing issue. I think they see their demographic as horny teenage boys and middle aged women and that is who the box/promo art is aimed at. I dont think that marketing perception of players is right. And I know the actual game devs have very little to do with publishing/marketing. But from a marketing mans point of view whats better to sale units than a barely covered cleavage for the boys to lust over and the cat women to pretend to be.
Don't you know? The less it covers, the more it protects! Seriously though, thats long been a staple of fantasy games, its nothing new. I'm not going to say wether that's right or wrong, its just how things have been. As for the alpha armor, it's been stated many, many times that it was too much for anyone's system to handle. Not only that, but in all honesty the only good piece in there was what the lady was wearing... everything else looked pretty close to the ugly generic stuff we had at the release of the game. I would like to see some more original designs in the game like that. It doesn't need to be the bikini armor, it just needs to be something original. It'd also be nice if it represented the class a bit more as well. Anyways, here's some examples of keeping sexy in the game without showing too much skin... these are player-made custom armor models for Oblivion, a game that sucks so very, very badly but is none-the-less commendable for the mod community's devotion and inginuity. Oh, and please ignore the stupid cat ears... People seem to like to use that cat-race to model their stuff.
