Golbone wrote: Here is the exact wording; Caster will riposte x% of incoming frontal attacks. Attacks from other quadrants have the same chance of being parried. If buckler equipped in Secondary. That really isn't hard to understand, meaning, that you will only have the extra chance to Riposte from the frontal arc which I have no idea how big that arc would be and then have that extra 8% chance to parry from other quadrants like flanking and behind postions. Frontal isn't classed as other or the exact wording would of been, Attacks from all quadrants have the same chance of being parried, which it doesnt state that. They could of even just stated, Caster will riposte and parry x% of incoming frontal attacks and all other attacks from other quadrants have the same chance of being parried. It clearly says and states what it does. Even if what Skel says was the case, then why is Skel's Parry only 3% higher then mine? His is 18% with Buckler AA line, mine is 15.6% Tank spec'd, so techicnally, its not even 3%. I assume its because he has alot of gear with +Parry and I could easily get it higher with some more +Parry gear myself. If for some reason you are silently getting this 8% parry from the front, then I claim the wording to be ethier wrong or the skill to be bugged as thats not what it states, clearly.
-Aonein- wrote: Since the word "quadrant" means "a quarter of a circle; an arc of 90 degrees" (dictionary.com), I'm going to say 90 degrees.
-Aonein- wrote: First off, you have to parry to be able to riposte...so if you riposte, you parried a hit first then stuck someone back. AKA 8% parry from all quadrants with a benefit of also riposte from the front. Second the display window doesnt even come anywhere close to showing true avoidance. I dont understand why you make posts like this if you dont even understand how riposte works much less all the other attributes of avoidance.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: Skel, how do you misread it so badly? The riposte % bonus will only trigger from the front, if you parry from any other quadrant other then the front, you wont get the riposte bonus, the same can be said about parring from other quadrants doesn't allow you to riposte those same postions. The simplistic way to look at it is like this, if you have mobs behind you or to the side, your getting a parry bonus but no riposte bonus, if they are in the frontal arc, there is no parry bonus and you get a higher chance to riposte bonus. Lets say for the sake of argument that your base chance to riposte is 5%, which im guessing it is in lines with your base chance to parry, again, you Parry and on that succesful Parry you have a 5% base chance to riposte. Now, on that succesful parry for mobs in that frontal arc, you gain a 8% extra chance to Riposte brings you upto a total of 13% chance to riposte on that succesful parry not including any outside modifiers in the form of gear, buffs etc. This is why Buckler lines have proven to be such high dps lines to go with because of the amount of triggers you can do with just Buckler reversal alone, it creates its own loop chain effect. Again, which you have misread, my point is that Riposte does not add to your avoidance and never has, nor does Buckler line unless the mobs are outside that frontal arc, just like the skill states.
-Aonein- wrote: you CAN NOT riposte without parrying first, please stop posting you have no idea what you are talking about
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: What part of what I wrote in that quote there even remotely states that you can riposte at any time?! Skel, why is it your the only person who doesn't understand this? Have you gone the last year thinking to yourself that you are getting some magical 8% frontal parry bonus from Buckler line? Because if you are, then your seriously mistaken and the skill doesn't work that way nor has it ever. I seriously dont think I could of been any clearer with anything I have pointed out, unless you want me to start spelling it out.
Ok, I can see that there is some confusion here.. nobody was trying to say that riposte adds to avoidance, but a riposte only happens after a successful parry (which does), doing damage is just an added bonus. I assume that your thinking that it ONLY means riposte, so that in order to get the parry bonus it would have to be the back or flank arcs, which isn't true... lets take the wording of the spell and break it down.... Caster will riposte x% of incoming frontal attacks. - (as Skel mentioned, this is actually a parry AND THEN a riposte all wrapped into one neat lil package called "riposte") Attacks from other quadrants have the same chance of being parried. - (so if something is actually behind/flanking you, you still have a chance to parry it) If buckler equipped in Secondary. So there is the reasoning I say that the "parry" bonus effects you no matter where the mob is... but you only riposte (attack back) on the parries from your front arc. I hope this clears it up some for anyone who wasn't sure.
Golbone wrote: Your right, this is what I have been trying to say all along and is what I hope most except certain individuals had gathered from what I have said. There is one small problem though, your Riposte and Parry value chances are two totally seperate entities. When you Parry, you have that chance to Riposte. Your chance to Riposte is a stand alone value not effected by your Parry skill. Your Parry skill is also a stand alone value not effected by your Riposte value. That is the reason I think its so confusing for some people to understand because they think that Riposte and Parry is rolled into one value, when it isn't. Like I said above a few posts, your going to have a base value for both Parry and a base value for Riposte, adjusting one value doesn't adjust the other.
no dood this is a fixed value, it means if you take a frontal hit, you have an 8% chance to parry the hit AND riposte it, there isnt 2 seperate checks. From this skill you have a 360 8% parry and a frontal arc riposte ontop of it.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: Wrong again, as if it was a fixed value it would effect your Parry % in your UI under Avoidance, this is not a Parry stat change, its a fixed value change as you say. If it was a fixed value, why is it there is items and buffs that only effect riposte OR parry alone? If it does effect both Parry and Riposte and you say that Parry and Riposte are fixed values, then why doesnt the wording specifically state that it just effects Parry by 8% seeing they are both fixed values? If you are comfortable and feel safe that you think it adds 8% to parry, then thats fine with me Skel, im not going to try and prove otherwise.
Just so you can understand, when a monk uses tsunami he NEVER gets hit by a melee attack from the front. I sugest you read the wording Now if you think that %riposte is not a parry+riposte then i really dont know what to tell you.
-Aonein- wrote: First off, it does affect your avoidance see 1 point and see the avoidance and see 8 points. Second off parry skill and riposte skill are diffrent then a %riposte or %parry. I mean by your logic a monk should be hit like normal when he tsunamis... but guess what he doesnt. You can stop posting now and have a nice day
The frontal riposte is an automatic riposte (and parry of course) on success of the check. The parry from other quadrants still has a chance to riposte, because that is fixed as a percentage chance on ANY parry. This is should be pretty obvious. A bonus to the riposte percentage by other means (items) is a bonus to that on a successful parry. A bonus to the parry percentage chance by other means is a bonus to the parry, and associated with that is the chance at a riposte based upon the existing values and bonuses you have for riposte.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: Care to explain how your Parry goes down instead of up with 1 to 8 points spent in it and also how your Block percentage doubles from just adding 8% to parry please Skel?
ever think my photo bucket has hundred of pics that show my persona window and i got one with a tower shield mixed up?
Just pull your head out of you butt, sit down, and read tsunami. Understand that monks do NOT get hit from melee when they use the skill, and then apply that same logic but with only 8% chance. Its really not that hard.
Skel@Butcherblock wrote: Well, all I know is that the 8% to parry isn't registering under Parry itself and is adding to Base avoidance for some odd reason as your screen shot shows, your parry doesn't move and you get a extra 4% to base avoidance which is then watered down some more and trasfered into 3% overall. That there is strange in itself and worth debating. Does it actually effect Parry by 8%? I really don't know and nothing here has proven it does, I haven't even proven that it doesn't except for mere speculation of how it is simply worded in the skills description. Like I said Skel, if you feel comfortable with the possibility that thats how it works, then fine by me, I am not going to try and prove to you otherwise, but there is a 50/50 chance that I could be right and the Base avoidance being increased by such a small margin instead of parry is questionable, but im leaving it as that.
-Aonein- wrote: No where does any SOE dev come forward and say that to get a riposte you need a parry and then a riposte check... NOWHERE. Now by inferring that from the parry info saying that 20% of all parries can riposte you have made a half way intelligent assumption... halfway. You are not alone on that assumption. You are correct in my book on many things you have stated in your argument... but the over all result is one I agree with Skel on... the TEXT on things doesn't matter... it's how it works that what matters... they could give me a 2 handed sword of vengeance but if I equip it I see a cuddly bunny then it is a 2 handed cuddly bunny of vengeance. I don't care what SOE calls it... if they say it's a sword they can call it a sword all day long... but if they programmed it to be a bunny... then IMHO it's a bunny. The way it seems SOE programed Parry and riposte to me seems like this. Parry = parry 20% of all standard parries = riposte damage in addition. riposte = automatic parry + riposte. So like if you have 10% parry 10% riposte from items It's like you have 20% parry (10% parry +10% free parries because of 10% item riposte) 12% riposte (10% item riposte + 20% of 10% parries are riposte) Ignore the text sometimes... no where in the mathematical formula is the text that you are reading... that's 100% independent. It's INTENTION is to give you correct info... but that isn't always what it does... and there is no fail safe to ensure that it does. When you get 8% riposte and you get attacked from the front you can feel a difference in the incoming damage.. it's noticable. If Riposte didn't include a free parry from the front you would NOT notice the difference because it would not exist. Also what type of crack smoking dev would give you only counter attacks from the front and not the parry they gave you from the sides and back? where would the logic be in that? I think you are smart... and I think you have a grasp on the way things are phrased... but I think your head is tied down too much to the text and not to the fact that the text and the code that the text explains don't have to match... THEY SHOULD... and THAT IS THE INTENTION... but it doesn't always happen and you have placed too much faith in the text.
