Berserker Guide - Pre RoK

Discussion in 'Berserker' started by ARCHIVED-kmc410h, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    -Aonein- wrote:
    There is no 50/50 just scroll up and read tsunami, and read revenge. Sorry that you cant admit you were wrong and that you need to give false info on a sticky. So anyone who is looking for help who doesnt fully read this gets false info from you, congratz.
  2. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Nembutal wrote:
    Interesting and thank you for putting it that way, makes alot more sense. Just out of curiosity, has a Dev ever said that this is how our skill works or are most people basing their assumption of the monk skill? Like you said, pay no attention to the wording and sometimes I will agree with that, but there are times when things are slightly coded differently with the wording being the same.
    Skel, I understand it is hard for you to accept that there is certain builds now that are out doing Buckler on many levels, I really do, but the orginal intention of my post to begin with was to challenge or debate the fact that people like your self seem to think that Buckler lines provide the same protection as Tank spec'd, it doesn't for a number of reasons;
    1. There is a cap on how much Parry you can have anyway, and you being fully EoF fabled and having +Parry adornments are most likely hitting that cap if not by gear alone, by buffs in groups.
    2. I can cap out on Parry as you do plus have double the amount of Block, I mean, I am only under your parry by a small margin of 2 and a half percent. Bards pick up that slack np at all.
    3. The only real benefit you are getting from that ability is in reguards to groups, as I said, this debate was over what is more defensive until it got side tracked, and like I pointed out, Skel is more then likely hard capped for Parry anyway so there is no real frontal benefit for him, its simply 360 degrees benefit from the sides and behind that he recieves that chance to Parry where Tower doesn't. Now ask yourself, unless in groups or doing quests in dungeons, how often are you completely surrounded?
    4. Ask any heal team OR get a heal parse from how much damage you are healed for while in Buckler spec, then do the same thing while tank spec'd, assuming you spam Mayhem and Wall of Ferocity. Heal teams will tell you right of the bat that there is a difference.
    The only real thing you lose from being Tank spec'd is the loop chain effect from Buckler reversal in reguards to be capped out on Parry, which I wont lie can be handy on higher level mobs 73+ with alot of avoidance.
    The simple view of Buckler is this, in grind groups it is probally hands down the best selection to go with. If you aren't tanking on the raid, then you need to be dual weilding. Most higher level raid content that matters hits way to hard to waste time in Buckler spec + Offensive stance, Ancient Bloodbeast anyone?
    Do not misread what I say here as the gospel truth, as I am basing my assumption off Zerkers who reach the Parry cap via gear or group buffs which isn't hard to do now, even for Legendary Zerkers.
    At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter as its all about taste and how you prefer to play your zerker, sure there is min/max styles etc, but all in all, there is many styles that all do as good as the next now when geared and grouped correctly.
  3. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    Skel@Butcherblock wrote:
    I think you missed this... % riposte/parry is totally different from the parry you are thinking of. The % skill are used as a totally different check.

    My argument also has nothing to do with what build is "best". I just hate when people spread false info.
  4. ARCHIVED-Loki Firestar Guest

    all skel is saying is that the check is seperate...
    as in if you did not avoid them then you have an additional 8% chance to parry and repose. That would mean it can't show up on your normal parry%
  5. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Skel@Butcherblock wrote:
    No I didn't miss it, there is a cap on how much %parry you can have just like there is Mitigtation, Resists, Stats etc etc. My argument has nothing to do with what is best ethier, your spreading misinformation by saying that Buckler spec is just as effective as Tank spec, that is false information in itself for the simple fact, you are capped out on Parry skill. There is no cap we know of on %Block because there is no skill that adjusts it. The way they regulate how much actual %block you have is strictly done by shield mitigation factor OR outside modifiers like Soulfire for 5% extra block chance so for all we know, there is no cap on %block because there are no items in the game that allow us to keep increasing it. Same can be said about parry, except there is a skill that effects parry and we know the cap is 450, once you hit the cap, the only way to modify the %parry is by items. Before you jump to conclusions, read the next part.
    Now, the %riposte value is a passive value and a fixed one as you have established, so if it is a passive fixed value, why isn't %parry changing in any form what so ever seeing that if what you say is true, 8% riposte = 8% parry also. Again, try to think about what I am saying here, it is a passive value, passive values add to your %pools, this isn't. The skill itself is passive based, yet it effects %base avoidance instead of %parry.
    Out of curosity, what is your parry skill at? Mine is 427 and Im pretty sure the cap is 450, but also remember that the Parry skill adds to your %parry, reduce it and check it. What I am saying is, that it all ends up in the same %pool for %Parry itself.
    Now, the question is, why is the 8% riposte adding to Base avoidance?
    The way I look at is this, with or without your Buckler line, your %parry is not changing, no one has proven that it does by way of parse and healers will show you parses where Buckler spec does take much larger amounts of damage compaired to Tank spec which indicates ethier 2 things;
    1. Parry isn't as effective as Block or buckler spec isn't as effective as tank spec.
    2. There is no frontal parry bonus.
    I prefer to go with 1 for the sake of peoples sanity, but there is the possibility that it could also be 2.
  6. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    no, percentage parry is different then +parry. They use seperate checks, the avoidance displayed in your window is not %parry... its based on the parry skill you are talking about.


    Let me make this as clear as i can.

    Percentage parry does NOT go towards your parry in your avoidance window. Infact you can call it something totally different because it doesnt work the same at all. Lets just call this acrobatics for clarification on how avoidance works. Here is an example of %parry circled in red:

    [IMG]



    The parry you are talking about is this(circled in yellow), which does cap and is highly contested:

    [IMG]

    It adds to the parry you see in the avoidance window:

    [IMG]

    What i have circled here is NOT %parry.





    So here is a breakdown of how avoidance works as a whole with the term "acrobatics" used for %parry items/skills to avoid confusion:


    1. Acrobatics: This has no checks(otherwise known as uncontested). Acrobatics offers a static % to not be hit.

    2. Parry: Parry is highly contested versus a mob. This means that parry is checked versus level, quality(heroic, epic, etc), and the mobs C/P/S skill. Parry is gained by the parry skill you see under your persona window(second picture i have shown here)

    3. Block: Block is another uncontested form of avoidance. Block offers a static chance to not be hit.

    4. Dodge: Dodge is another highly contested version of avoidance with the same qualities of parry. Your dodge skill is calculated by your defence skill as well as your agility










    fixed uncontested block...
  7. ARCHIVED--Aonein- Guest

    Skel@Butcherblock wrote:
    Now your starting to make sense. I take it there is no way to tell what your %parry is or "acrobatics" actually is? Given we knows its 5% base, is it safe to assume that we just add the %riposte numbers on top of it?
  8. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    There is no base for it since it isnt based off any skill we have nativly, the base 5% you are thinking of is from the actual parry skill we have that caps(the yellow one i circled in the pics). "Acrobatics" only exists from adornments, AA, and spells. You are correct to assume you add %riposte on top for an overall avoidance check. ex.

    2% parry adorn
    3 points in gladiator revenge for 3% riposte(this riposte grants a parry then a riposte) frontal

    total "acrobatics" for avoidance check is 5%.

    Its really bad wording on the part of SoE because its easy to confuse it with the real parry. They also make it very unclear on what it does from the wording. This is why i say that sta line gives you a close amount of uncontested avoidance to tower. Altho making 2 checks, one for block and another for "acrobatics" is not as good as one higher check.
  9. ARCHIVED-Golbone Guest

    Thank you Skel, that is what I was trying to explain and was just dancing around the wording... the screenshots really help people understand how certain things work. I would just like to say how much we appreciate all your help on these boards.
  10. ARCHIVED-Nitz Guest

    Skel, your patience is legion.
  11. ARCHIVED-Schmalex23 Guest

    Hah thanks guys =P
  12. ARCHIVED-kmc410h Guest

    RoK UPDATES COMING SOON! Hold onto your boot straps it's gonna be a bumpy ride!
  13. ARCHIVED-RenidinIV Guest

    I saw in this thread a reference to the worldwide berserker channel.
    What is that channel name and how may I join in?
    Also, i dinged lev 64 today and was wondering what was the generally accepted best choice for master II, now that we now what is upgraded down the line with RoK?
    Thank Your and Regards,
  14. ARCHIVED-Jusztin Guest

    Cmos@Butcherblock wrote:
    I hope its comes soon. Any ETA?
  15. ARCHIVED-kmc410h Guest

    Jusztin wrote:
    No eta, but it is in the works.
    I'm actually working on a seperate guide for RoK and will keep this one intact as 1-70 guide, maybe add in some more lower tier stuff to this one too. It's coming, I've just been busy leveling and getting all of my aa's and with the holidays and all not much time to spare other then when I'm at work :p
  16. ARCHIVED-Dashel Guest

    Much appreciated!
  17. ARCHIVED-kmc410h Guest