Balance?

Discussion in 'PvP TLE Discussion' started by Jarvan, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Jarvan New Member

    What's the deal with this scout damage "balance" ? Scout's are literally using 2 combat arts to kill a tank, meanwhile classes like berserker do literally no damage in pvp at all, paladins are nerfed so hard that they may as well not exist. lol
  2. Somedude Active Member

    Level past 20. Things balance out when you can't 100-0 someone in a single chain of less than 6 ca's.
    Obano and Snikkety like this.
  3. Satyr Well-Known Member

    "Hardcores" locking at 16-20 with a Master 2 harassing new players. Shamans are great now though :D
  4. Snikkety Well-Known Member

    Seriously. Pvp has been dull as **** and I am so tired of literally everyone being either a ranger or brigand. Much more fun past level 14.
  5. Somedude Active Member


    They'd first have to fix XP.

    Since there was nothing in the patch notes, I'm done with this server. See you when there is a bauble.
  6. Jenisyde New Member

    I will chime and say from my limited time in EQ2 and pvp, there should be some sort of limitation to tracking.

    Maybe invis negates tracking? It's just silly to watch a bunch of scouts on my tracking/map following people around etc. Or maybe if someone is invis, it takes a certain amount of time in track range for them to show up. Other than too many scouts and tracking OP (myself being a troubador), i've actually enjoyed myself. The grind and rewards of leveling up feel good if you split time between pvp and pve
  7. Siren Well-Known Member


    No one can see you on tracking if you're stealthed or invisible, *unless* they already have See Stealth or See Invisible running in one of various ways (predators-- rangers and assassins-- are able to See Invisible Players when they're in stealth themselves, and brigands and swashies can see other stealthed players when they're stealthed, *plus* anyone with a see stealth or see invis totem running can see stealthed or invis players too. Oh, and mages have See Invisible Players as well as having Invisibility themselves.)

    So if a player can see through your stealth/invis for any of those reasons, then you'll show up on their tracking.

    Okay! Whew, this is getting long, sorry, but also: Certain *races* have tracking.

    They can roll any class at all (tank, healer, mage etc.) and have tracking that way. Racial tracking only shows same faction players, but realistically with FFA, that's mostly what you're going to run into except way out in the wildlands, and even then a good chunk of them will still be same-faction.

    If you get any sort of totems, make sure you at least never run out of See Stealth totems. You need to be L20 to use those. Remember: a stealthed player is a scout, and they're at their most dangerous/highest damage stealthed.

    Invis players are mages, who are useless invisible (they pop out of it as they cast and have to stand still casting at that), or they're monks whose invis is draining their power the entire time it's running, so that won't be for long, and they don't have any "does more damage while invis" attacks either. Oh, and Furies eventually get group Invisibility.

    So even for people who don't want to roll a scout, between totems so they can see you, and racial tracking so they can track you, tracking is thankfully much less of a threat than it was in old Nagafen's heyday.
    Breanna likes this.
  8. Jenisyde New Member

    Guess it's just a scout overload thing
  9. lcubanol New Member

    Scouts back to two shotting tanks? In KoS? The game has come full circle.
    Obano likes this.
  10. Obano Well-Known Member

    Nobody has reached the level cap yet but I doubt anyone is going to two shot an end game tank. Too many people making assumptions based on T2 PvP which was never balanced to begin with.
  11. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Someone is max level at the moment.
  12. Obano Well-Known Member

    Is it you? If so gratz.

    I am just going by the census data but maybe it hasn't updated yet.
  13. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    No. However the person who is 70 we basically duo'd all the way up except for a few levels where one of us weren't online to group with the other. I can affirmatively say a lot of the tiers would've been harder/quests wouldn't be possible to solo on the classes we were on without spells.

    I'm level 66, I've basically given up on leveling at this point. I've done over 600 quests at this point if I had to guess including repeatable's turn ins. It's easily around 90 hours 4 days play time of soloing to reach level 70, if you played two hours a night until the bauble you would reach level 70. I'd guess it's around 45 hours to hit 70 assuming you're grinding and don't get distracted having to pvp throughout contested zones. I know people getting roughly 1:1 at the lower tiers, but it's easier to mass pull the higher level you get because of blue stats, more buttons to press, more AA's (typically) etc.

    Either way, there were 84 people online during prime time today, I don't really see any point in continuing on this server until I can grind up to 70 with friends, find a crafter at 70 to make spells, then wait for the bauble so people level up then maybe pvp for a week or two.

    People like Siren think that the above hours are reasonable on a server that is limited, but I really just don't see it. Seeing as how even pvp experience isn't the best way to level up, and people don't want to grind all the way up; because it's not really fun.

    I simply try to bring facts, not opinions on the leveling experience. A lot of people who think it's "fine" are level 20, I can say it takes maybe 5-10 hours to hit level 20, but it easily takes 15 hours to go 20-30 solo. It's not too bad in the 30-50, and 55-70 range, but 20-30 & 50-55 is actually miserable. If we had xp pots maybe it could be reasonable to try and hit level 70 grinding up in 20 hours running through zones pvping people also trying to level, but it doesn't seem many want to level when they can just get stuck at a tier with no one to pvp for a day or two because of how people are spread out level wise.

    I'd love this server if it had the population to support multiple tiers of pvp and the xp rate, but it doesn't.

    I'd predict 40-50 people will hit max level before the bauble, this isn't really acceptable. I will love to discuss the leveling experience with those who think it's "fine" when they hit 70 before the bauble, until they do. Their opinion is null.
    Obano and Xiao like this.
  14. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    I also wanted to add another thing to the above post,

    Itemization.

    It really doesn't work in terms of primary stat on gear leveling up, it's frustrating to level up and see how every piece of gear doesn't actually have levels on it anymore except 10/20/30/40/50/60/70 meaning you wear the same gear in the tier all the way up, complete a level 37 quest? Level 30 gear, this means that your primary stat never goes up in the tier meaning that the primary stat curve actually works against you, I can parse more at level 30 than I can at level 39 essentially because 400 agi at level 30 is 55% increase to damage, versus its around 47% at level 39.

    Itemization is also the same from the first ^ mob you kill in TT to deathtoll, it makes raiding entirely pointless and creates zero character progression, this is also going to be an issue on Kaladim when they get to KoS so it's worth noting. It's fairly sad to see that for nearly everyone but tanks the cloud mount timeline gear is best in slot because it has the same exact stats as relic/raid gear and it gives 6 crit from the set bonus, plus around 100 ability mod. Procs on every item has never been scaled since the original expansions meaning they are useless in a lot of situations, of course some items will stand out in terms of buffs like "haste" which give 20 haste off tarinax, but the odds of it dropping/time required to farm these items doesn't provide enough benefit for anyone to really give a ****.

    It's kinda cool for pvp because everyone is on a even playing field but it makes no point really in killing raid content, there is of course a few pieces that are the "butchers" which give a few more stats, but it's all negligible in the long run, and doesn't provide any incentive to go after contested raid bosses/raid in general. I always liked the idea of being able to gear out and adds a PVE experience to the pvp aspect of this game, but right now it's just not at all in game.

    All of this of course is never going to be fixed because of the allocation of all resources at the moment to the live expansions, If it's possible; set itemization back to Fallen Gate's itemization and then just tweak it here and there on specific items that players feedback, like Fyreflyte did on quite a few occasions.
    Obano and Xiao like this.
  15. Obano Well-Known Member

    I agree with a lot of what you wrote Adoninilol especially on the itemization. It seems like they could write a script to fix that in 15 minutes.

    If "Treasured"
    - give X stat
    - plus 1 random blue stat
    If "Legendary"
    - give X stat + Y stat
    - plus 2 random blue stats
    If "Fabled"
    - give X stat + Y stat + Z stat
    - plus 3 random blue stats

    As for the leveling I didn't think 20 to 30 was too bad. Letting vitality build up while crafting or harvesting helps a lot. It would be pretty mind numbing to just grind it out though without doing other things in between.

    Soloing is pretty difficult which is why I box two accounts. This is a good thing. I consider Nagafen to be a hardcore server not just a PvP server. It is kind of how it was back in the old days.
    Siren likes this.
  16. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    So many things dont make sense with this server. Its only 90 days but XP comes at a snails pace,(why they thought level locking was a good idea on a temporary server is beyond me) itemization feels extremely limited as Adon mentioned. Player CC is negligible but items and AA's are full duration. It feels like they make a decision without asking what will this effect?

    I've really lost all hope of them ever making a decent PvP server. Deathtoll was phenomenal until spell damage was ruined and we sat in classic for 6 months. It felt close but as each season comes out it seems to be even further from what it should be. Just a disappoonting experience all around this time on Nagafen. I unsubbed, can't see myself coming back for the bauble either since classic wow launches.
  17. Dude Well-Known Member

    Because tons of people specifically asked for it.
    Siren and Breanna like this.
  18. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    Listening to the vocal minority without contemplating the effects it would have on server and population health. Y I K E S
  19. Dude Well-Known Member

    Thinking that people who disagree with you are the minority. S U P E R Y I K E S!
    Obano, Siren and Breanna like this.
  20. Kazooooooooooo Active Member

    There's nothing to disagree about. Level locking kills server population on a temporary server with ****** XP rates. Do you honestly believe a majority of players sit in discord let alone come to this graveyard of a forum? If you're going to launch something as fickle as a PvP server it has to be done decently without listening to players like yourself. There were some terrible decisions made in the past like the introduction of separate stats/gear for PvP and PvE back on old Nagafen. Guess what? People wanted that too and it nuked the ******* server, just because you think you want something doesn't mean it is healthy for the servers population. In a world of 100 people every player counts and the majority of players don't quit because they can't level lock. People don't log in to play with you level locking, people log in to experience the entire game and adventure. That's what MMO's are all about. I'm the biggest PvP advocate ever and it is completely irrelevant unless the base game is engaging. But yeah you're right. This level locking idea of yours is genius. It only killed the server in 3 weeks lol

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