Avoid Old Zones

Kermithy@Crushbone wrote:

The old zones are quite good. personally I find your take on the situation completely wrong. I find the old zoens BY FAR have more personality to them and are more dynamic than the new zones myself. They have revamped a few of the old zones and done a decent job but I still hIGHLY prefer the old world zones.

Gosh I've recently come back and restarted, since the server my main is on is pretty dead.

Anyway I am all over the place, had a BB group the other day, then on in Butcher Block Mountians, then friend of mine and I went to Stomrhold.

Don't think there is anything wrong with the old zones, sure they could use a "face lift" in certian areas but they are far from horrible. Still decent experience and still fun to do.

Actually most zones got a revamp since the beginning. As most zones are good now I will only list the zones that could need some work:
Antonika - Quests are not nearly as good as in CL
Thundering Steps - currently the worst zone to quest in
Enchanted Lands - OK, but could be better
Zeck - OK, but many quests that need a lot of running around. Could need a tunnel or two.
Rivervale - Maybe even worse then Thundering Steps, but there are enough alternatives
Ferrot - The Quest hubs at the entrance are OK, but it could need a second quest hub farther inside the zone for the 2nd part of it.
Sinking Sands / Pillars of Flames - Many quests with huge timesinks and random updates.
KOS - now OK, but could still need a bit of polish

As you see it is mostly the old "good side" missing out, but as you can't even start in Qeynos any more even less player will play that content.

Calberak@Valor wrote:

Antonica needs quite a bit of love. Mainly, it is missing a good quest hub, like CL has with the crossroads. And given the layout of Antonica, it should really have two or three.
TS is definitely a bit of an annoying zone to quest in. It is a big zone with many obstructions that limit travel and a lot of mobs, many heroic. Like Antonica, it needs a few distinct quest hubs, each dealing primarily with the area around them. Less running around all over the place, basically.
Zek is okay from a travel standpoint. You've got the horse points. And pretty much all the quests take place in the southern part of the zone, barring a few click on something to get a quest in the area where you clicked on the thing. The one big exception is the 20 part quest series. And the issue there isn't so much with that quest series, but rather the lack of quests to go with it. Once you move away from the docks and Green Hoods, there's no quest hub. The Tailor Camp essentially needs to be expanded a bit and have a few quest givers with quests that focus on the Sullon area, as well as the area surrounding DFC, and some that do something with the undead+treant area, a chunk of the zone that is currently pretty much pointless other than to be annoying to travel through.
Additionally, if one wanted to make it more solo friendly, certain quest nameds (and maybe others as well) would need to be reduced from ^^^s to ^^ or ^. And the critters in the water near the docks would need to have their crazy aggro ranges shortened, possibly the population thinned a bit.
That said, it is my preferred zone for the level range. Lots of quests, not too much travel.
Enchanted Lands could benefit from a second quest hub, one that focuses on the bigger nastier things. Overall, it is sort of like Zek, in that there's a big chunk of content that focuses on the southern part, the area near the docks, and not nearly as much on the parts deeper in. The deeper in areas also have a chunk of heroic mobs, which if one wanted to make things easier, you'd want less of as well.
Rivervale isn't a solo zone right now. A good chunk of the mobs are ^^^ heroics or the equivelant groups there of (2 ^^s, 3 ^s, etc). It'd need to see most of its mobs made weaker. As is, you might as well do a dungeon rather than Rivervale. The mobs will be as tough, you'll get more loot, and you'll have an easier time fighting your way to places. If one were to have a goal of making it a zone that gets used, one would have to change the majority of critters to no longer be heroic.

Axterix wrote:

TS is a good zone for questing in. there is nothing wrong with running around a bit.
Axterix wrote:

The last quest I did in Zek apart from the druid ring ones involved killing treants.
Axterix wrote:

But of course making things easier is not the point. Making things more fun and more interesting is. and heroic mobs help with that. Last time I was adventuring there apart from for the druid ring, we were killing epics (4 people, 3 mentored) and it was fun.
Axterix wrote:

Of course Rivervale is not a solo zone. It is a dungeon - check the achievement for the zone. It just happens to be open to the sky.

Kermithy@Crushbone wrote:

I'm in a guild that has recently formed a few static Halas based groups. We are working the dungeons (instances) each week. We play for about 2 hours one day a week. Our characters can solo, group, etc. throughout the week, but each week we set the dungeon we will be working the following week and the level range, so everyone can keep at that level. We expect our group to be a low levels for quite a while. There is no mentoring in the static group since that changes the dynamics quite a bit.
So, what I do is solo and duo questlines while keeping my AA slider to 100%. My character is now level 24 with 51AAs. We will be prolly staying around 22-25 for the next few weeks while we work FG, SH, CPK and perhaps a few T-3 x2 raids - what fun! We already started out on Wailing Caves and Blackburrow at level 15 a week after we rolled our characters in New Halas and going through the starter areas. Some of us locked at 10 and began massing AAs which in T-1 is just about every single quest you can find in any T-1 area.
Our guild also has groups going all the time at various levels and tiers all the way to 90. Of course, our guild is one of the larger ones, but we have very active members - it's not unusual to see 25-40 peeps on at the same time.
So, I suggest you find a guild on Crushbone that can meet your needs - perhaps start a static group yourself. You can also use channels to find peeps who are at higher levels who want to mentor down for the AAs they missed.

Axterix wrote:

The difference in these zones is that they don't lead you around by your nose to the each and every thing in the zone that you can do. There are even some series quests that lead you to the various areas in Antonica. There are very few quests that occur in the overland zones that you can't complete solo. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the one that send you to kill the Windstalker Rumbler. The ones that send you to a dungeon, you should expect to have to group for those.
What the older zones actually need is a loot update. The questing isn't bad, the rewards however are underwhelming.
Not every overland zone has to be 100% solo. That's boring. It adds a bit of a thrill to the game to know that there might be something that will eat you out there.

Terron@Splitpaw wrote:

True - sort of - Rivervale is a public instance (dungeon) as FG, SH, WC, RE, OoLS are public instances. However, it is put together more as a zone - an heroic zone with HQ, L&Ls and a complete timeline which Idb is the only instance that does have an extensive timeline, except maybe Shimmering Citadel and Sol Eye. You can solo some of RV at level if you have the AAs; however originally, you needed a group for most all of it, even though there are some solo quests. And there is even a dungeon off the RV dungeon - The Tower of Drafling complete with it's own L&L and used in part for an HQ, epic quests and even crafting quest! It's a bit more complex than something like The Vault of the Fallen (FG) or Overlord's Throne Room (RE) or Tomb of Valor (SH) or even Bastion of Flames (Sol Eye).
Even though the EQ2 Achievements lists one mob from Rivervale under the category of "Dungeons", because it is a public instance, but more of a mix. Interesting concept (public dungeon, L&Ls, HQs and full timeline) that never really fully developed outside of Shattered Lands.
However, according to the dungeon timelines, RE is listed along with Kaladim, DFC, CT, OoLS and Drafling Tower - but not Rivervale. It's kinda like not a complete dungeon in the sense of how dungeons were developed, but not a "normal zone" like EL, ANT, CL, NEK, ZEK, EF, LS, neither.
Whether you call it a dungeon, instance or zone - RV is a good place to test your character in a group setting with some solo quests.

Terron@Splitpaw wrote:

TS isn't a good zone to quest in, compared to the alternatives. Of the three zones in its level, it is the worst.
In Zek, there's only 1 quest that involves killing treants, I believe. Part of the 20 long quest series. This is the type of thing I'm talking about. You've got a decent sized chunk of the map occuppied by these things, but they are under-used. The addition of 2-3 more quests that also involve that area would reduce the "travel, travel, travel" feel you sometimes get. Traveling to an area, then spending a bit of time there, then heading back...
And, yes, making it easier was the OP's point. Now, personally, I don't find EL's northern part hard to get around, rather easy, especially since little involves those mobs. Not a must fix, but if one did want to make the entire zone more solo friendly, you'd want to adjust those mob. I'd like to see a good quest hub for that northern section though.
And I never said Rivervale was a solo zone. It was on the guy's list, so I commented on it. That, in essence, it doesn't belong on the list because it is not intended to be a solo zone. I wouldn't call it a dungeon, however, regardless of what achievements say. It is a group based outdoor zone.

Finora@Everfrost wrote:

Those hubs don't offer that much though. The docks, for example, is not a quest hub. Nor is the bridge area. And, yes, for new players, if you want them to use these zones, you do need a bit of hand holding. There should be quests to bring you to the next major quest hub, tying them together. There should also be rewards for exploring, of course, quest givers or small hubs hidden away. Something the newer zones are sadly lacking.
As to loot? The rewards in the old zones are better than the new zones, not worse. Loot in the new zones tends to be flagged no-trade. Loot in the old zones, on the other hand, tends to just be treasured. About the only loot from the new outdoor zones I wind up using are jewerly slot items, and the old zones have some nice pieces in those slots as well. The rest gets vendored or transmuted. Why? Because for new or old, the stats are often off. So you buy or make a tradeskilled set at X0 or X2 and use that for 10 levels. Basically, if you level fast, you get the handcrafted version, and if you level slow, you get mastercrafted. If one wanted to make the quest rewards worthwhile, both old and new zones would need to see changes, more quest lines with a legendary+ at the end.
Additionally, the old zones tend to win out in quantity of loot as well. The random nameds are more in areas you're likely to be. There tends to be a bit more overlap among quests as to what you are doing in the area, more quests in total. And this is further augmented by drops that give quests.
So not only is the loot from the older zones more valuable because you can sell it without transmuting (something I bet most new players do not have a high skill in), but there's more of it per time period. Nektulos Forest is far superior to BB in this regard, for example.
And, again, the OP's goal is to make these older zones more friendly to newer players. It is that perspective I'm coming from. You might be wearing nostolgia tinted glasses. I am to a certain degree as well, as I wish the new zones were a bit more like the old ones. But, from a new player perspective, the old zones could stand to be a bit more like the newer ones. Especially the ones that are basically ignored.
Looking at the 20-30 range, for example, you'll typically find people in BB. You'll also find some people in Nek forest. You won't find 20-30s in TS most of the time. The typical crowd there tends to be 30ish. That seems to indicate that people are encouraged to go to BB, which they are, golden path and all. And that Nektulus is worth doing, if people find it. TS, on the other hand, seems to be something actively avoided from a "level appropriate" player perspective.

This recurring argument that the older areas need to be more like the newer areas - quest hubs, "friendlier" to new players is EXACTLY what I don't want!
Friendlier is an opinion, not necessarily a fact. As it stands, we have choices - lead by the nose quest hub centric never recross an area zones - ie the "new zones", or the "sand box" old zones. Doesn't seem that those who like the new zones are open minded enough to accept that some HATE that type, and like the "sand box type" instead.
I have no problem with the new zones, as long as I have a choice so I don't have to do them. That choice is being removed, and talk of "improving" those remaining worries me, as improving for some is destroying for others.
Loot - there is a strong argument that the new zone loot is worse than the old zones - for those that like crafting, the no-trade new zone loot is vendor fodder. At least the old zone reward junk treasured attuneables are worth about 10g each on the broker. I have had posters claim the drops are better than m/c gear - and if you compare T2 drops to T1 m/c maybe, but not otherwise.

For me Antonica is the only zone that really would benefit heavily from a graphical facelift, ideally just the fauna upgraded as parts of the zone feel too plain. I like the general design though.

Other then that Antonica, Thundering steppes, Enchanted lands and Rivervale while having some good quests feel like at times they miss out on storylines with some purpose to them, I'd like a few more major storylines in those areas (like Sir Tatters).

The other thing is that Thundering Steppes, Enchanted lands and Rivervale all suffer for is feeling a bit too static, at least Antonica has ring events etc that happen here and there, or highway men ambush you etc, I've love to see more patrols and goings on everywhere really.

I was impressed by Halas when I tried it (still part way through though), the questlines are good fun, and lead you nicely through the zone (without constantly calling you hero which is something that bugs me in other games! I'm an adventurer and not a very good one especially at low levels!). The one downside though are the newer zones tend to feel too safe, even if I venture to the back of a cave I don't find anything really dangerous, they also could do with more movement from the mobs or events to discover off the beaten track making the zones feel a bit more interactive. Sometimes just a big expanse of world with very little in it is enjoyable just to explore as its fun finding that rare quest or mob somewhere.

I hope whatever happens that we preserve the group areas, heroic mobs and the odd epic in the open world, there is already plenty to do that is soloable, but its fun to know that if you group up (which I do sometimes spontaneous with complete strangers) you can do something that was previously a bit too hard, or maybe if you get some better armour/spells/use that new ability you can defeat the heroic mob.
As often its the things that I cannot do yet that keep me playing the game, rather then just completing easy things that I know I can do.

Axterix wrote:

Maybe it's a server thing but I see people leveling in Thundering Steppes all the time. It's my favorite of the 20-30 zones myself.

Priddles@Crushbone wrote:

There, fixed for accuracy.

Gargamel wrote:

Except you no longer have to group to do the dungeon as the aa mods now mean most characters can do the previous group only dungeons solo.

If the following changes were made to antonica I think it would be one of the best questing zones in the game.
1. Move the starting questgiver for the main antonica questline from the hill near the southern islands to somewhere near other quest givers (claymore perhaps) or near the entry points. It is mad to have the main quest line where many players will never even notice it or if they do will assume it is just a random quest.
2. Fix the quests in that line that are broken (the one where you rescue the guys son is stupidly impossible at the right level and broken anyway, and the gnoll items later almost never drop as they should)
3. Make that line and some other major ones give a solid set of armor as per the T2 lines in halas and TD.
4. Tidy up other quest lines and givers and improve all rewards to be properly in keeping. Expands dancer's quest line a bit.
5. Add proper drops from nameds and treasure chests instead of the sub-handcrafted trash currently given.
6. Add another griffon tower up on the hill between windstalker village and the spire and possibly one at sayers outfitters. alternatively replace the griffons with horses and add these points.
I think the pathetic lack of gear given and the amount of running around for running arounds sake is all that puts people off.

Well this being the opinion of someone with no leveling - alts - who is "new" to the game and new to every zone I set foot in.
Given that I've played just about every other major game available at this point int he last two years - some longer than others .
I went through several of hte starter zones on several races, but only one character has leveled past 20 - my "main" (duh). The rest are just crafty alts to play with. I enjoyed all the starter zones, they all felt mostly appropriately "introduction/hand holding" with some exploring - though yes more so in Antonica/Queynos than in the uhh, new area added with the Sarnak - which was more directive in its questing.
I do like a nice combo/balance of both though - I think Antonica/Queynos older starter areas could use a bit more guidance with less "oh ok one quest that sends me 3/4 of the way across the zone with nothing else to do there until I get another few quest hubs along" over and over again..:/.
I've been in Butcherblock and Thundering Stepps the better part of several months (I don't level lock but I do set my slider at 50-60%, I do almost exclusively solo questing and have only been in Stormhold (think that's the name) a few times as the only dungeon experience I have).
Now, other htan being SICK of these two zones and their boring looks - I really, really, don't like the running bakc and forth all over the place. Now, partly my fault I guess for being more completiest and getting as many quests done as I can stand - but the lack of regular "main" quest hubs to me is a negative in these zones. They are huge, the 3 flight paths in each are near very little in terms of quest areas to mobs (so that there is always significant running no matter where you fly to), and even on a 55% run buff I get fed up with constantly running half-way across the country to do anything, or to turn whatever quest back in after running out to do it.
On top of that, since I'm relatively level appropriate (slightly out level I'm 33 and the quests I have are all upper 20s for the most part now) and only slightly high AAs (I have like 42 AAs), the overwhelming presense of 2 and 3x heroic mobs only adds to the frustration of giant over-land runs to do things. Having to run/outrun/pick my way through one or two packs of mobs would be one thing - but having to do the same 5-10-20 times over because the quests at the "hub" are sending me through the same areas over and over again (to kill mobs on the OTHER side of all those heroic mobs), make soloing even more frustrating and difficult.
BOTH of these zones have that problem to me. Just last night I was questing outside the Iron Mine dwarves area, and I'm getting quest after quest sending me BACK to kill these goblin/kobold things (the ones getting ready to plan an attacki, can't remember names I'm bad with names). Instead of say 5 quests at once in the same area, its just 5 quests in a row - going back and forth. This area is not only chocked full of mobs, but has a whole pack of heroic mobs that pats, and a few random heroic mobs in addition to the pack roaming. As a level 33 Warden I get my butt handed to me if I take a wrong step or am not clearing an area to pull solo-mobs to. The fact that I was sent back a 3rd time to do something that would require me to kill the same group of mobs I just killed twice over to get through to the zone (cuz you know they respawn) caused me to give up for the last few days and take a break.
Having THAT experience over and over again - across both zones - is what to me is wrong with "older world" areas. Now I can't speak to areas beyond these zones - I've not gone into Zek or EL yet as I want to finish up BB (mostly done with TS) for the AAs instead of having to mentor down/return at a much higher level and do grey content (because I find that mechanic even more obnoxious lol).
Its something I Hated in WoW old world (thank god they are revamping it) was having to run across entire "continents" of areas from quest hub - to quest mob - back again. EQ areas are even bigger, with more dangerous mobs running rampant, and no "safe roads" you can use to easily do so. You may call this "challenging" I call it "pointless grind and artifically extending the quest process." There are much better ways to extend the life of a zone and to put challenge in SOLO questing (really the fact that more than half of the quests I have left all require a group or me to be 10 levels above to complete grrr - and my quest log is FULL) than just having characters that have to be marathon runners. heh.

Just the viewpoint of a newbie .

Koriani@Lucan DLere wrote:

hmmmm - just a bit of observation, if you are mostly done with TS, and I presume ANT, too, you have missed a lot of AAs along the way. I have a level 25 character with 55AAs and am currently working in TS and haven't even touched BBM yet.
As for the running around large areas and killing the same MoBs over and over in order to get to your destination MOBs for the quest, I agree. it can be PITA in some regard. BBM, however, isn't as bad as TS which has quests split all over the place, so you are definately running back and forth through the same MoBs.
What I am doing in TS is getting every quest I can find an active feather on - at the docks, Antonica zoneline area, Thundermist Village, the Bridge Keep, and around Coldwind Cove. Then I look at the areas they deal with and combine the quests so I'm doing several at once. It doesn't totally negate the going back through the same mobs for the next quests, but it does shorten the number of times.
I also get all the HQs that are mostly done in TS, which helps with the back and forth, especially when you have to run back to Antonica.
As for getting around - the roads are the safest, but not fool proof, so when you see a MOB right on the edge of a road - just skirt around up the side of a hill or mountain slope to bypass it. Use the griffins to your advantage, too, even if it means running back to an area you just left - at least you bypass most of the land that way.
I hope you are working on your melee spec as a warden. It will help you a lot to handle the MoBs you are having a terrible time with right now. Of course, it means more AAs. Going through all the starter areas - villages of Q, Nursery/GFay, TD & Gorowyn, DLW (except Shadow Oak if you are good), Crypt of Betrayal through Vermin's Snye and Down Under, the Caves, Peat Bog will net you quite a few AAs more than you have now. Working HQs will also net you some nice AAs, too.
Having more AAs to play around with - will ease your pain of getting through those mobs a lot faster and easier.
BBM was revamped recently so there are more hubs and less spreading out of quest givers than in the past. There is also a new zone pass to SFM which wasn't there before and easier methods of transporting around Norrath from BBM. TS has yet to be revamped, but I suspect it will happen sometime - along with revamping of CL and ANT and NEK.
Anway, I hope some of these suggestions will help you in your adventures.
good adventures to you.

Parts of Ant around the Oracle tower have had a population explosion of aggro lizards. Why? It was such a good area for low toons to harvest. Is there some Lore going on that I missed?

I like that they're revamping things. Every time I come back to this game, it seems there've been changes and it still feels like EQ has more depth to it than anything else on the market, with the exception of Eve, which I could never get into. It always feels like there's so much I could be doing and it doesn't always have to involve combat.

I hope they don't ever change the aesthetics of the old zones, though. Antonica is still one of the prettiest zones in the game to me.