Avoid Old Zones

Hello all,
I played EQ2 at release all the way back, and eventually was won over to WoW because that's where my friends moved. Naturally, WoW has been a great play, but the community (the reason to play an MMO) was terrible compared to the shining community here. It's impressive that the strength of a game can be something it does not directly control. It speaks volumes about EQII, and so I'm back for the community and therefore for good.
The strength is the community, the weakness is consitancy and organization. Playing the old zones vs the new zones is an entirely different game and can be very disorienting. So disorienting that playing the old zones is discouraged and avoided. To new players that's clearly frustrating and speaks terribly about the quality of EQII, even though the new zones are very well engineered and executed.
My question is, and has been for the last few years (with warcraft too, who took the advice), why not redo the old zones? Now, I think that Blizzard is making a mistake with warcraft in certain zones to completely wipe the slate clean and start over. Retouching old zones in a game like EQII, where the zones are already so deep with lore and character, is a much better option.
How to retouch them? I will leave discussion of the execution to the strength of EQII, the community, to donate their ideas and creativity along with their love of the game to decide. The one thing to take away is that the old zones cannot stay, they will be changed or the game will continue to be frustrating to new players.

If you have read many threads on this subject, you can see that SoE has been redeveloping the shattered lands and changing some of the things and adding new instances in other xpacs over the past few years.
Lavastorm and Everfrost were both remade. KoS now has a new Cloud Timeline which offers an updated class armor based on the old relic armor of the Labs of Lord V. EoF zones such as Loping Plains have additional instances - so have LS and EF.
Current world live events that rebuilt spires, are now rebuilding druid rings so open up a lot more possiblities of refreshing the older zones.
The future is calling for revamping use of the main cities of Q & FP by SoE which they are slowly working on. All these changes are attempting to keep to the Lore of the Land of Norrath.
So, yes, the old zones have already been changing over the past few years and will continue to do so as was discussed by devs and the SP in several threads and interviews.

Thanks for the good response. Sorry, I've just jumped back into the game a week ago and haven't hit those threads yet. That all looks very promising, especially revamping the major Freeport/Qeynos. Is there a guide anyone can reccomend that is up to date for which zones are the "most fun" to level in (not just what zones are good for what levels)?

Well, their solution seems to be get rid of the old zones. So maybe they will.

Its a tough problem I think, I have a couple of friends who are hardcore WoW players (they have both played it for 4+ years and have a large number of max level characters), both of them enjoyed Halas I think, and both seem to be enjoying Antonica too....
What is missing in the new zones is the sheer variety I think, all the little ring events, dangerous elites etc that really make things so unpredictable. While there is a lot to improve and revamp (graphically I'd like to see the flora and terrain improved for example in Antonica) I'd also like to see the variety of content preserved, there is so much to do already in EQ2 so maybe they should offer normal and harder zones to players to choose a path through?
Because I personally think there is no reason that a huge game cannot offer a wide variety of content.

They also revamped sinking sands. I hope that they revamp instead of removing. They have done a bit of both so far. It remains to be seen which one they do the most of.
I honestly don't see that much difference between the new content and the old content. I don't find the old content confusing at all. *shrug* I'm not sure why its that way for me while apparently some people are lost and confused. I guess maybe its because I tend to look quests up and follow the timelines.
Kermithy@Crushbone wrote:

eq2wikia timeline
I use the timelines at the wiki. Lot's of useful info there.

The old zones stem from a time when EQ2 had a very different focus than what it is now, and they weren't designed with linear progression in mind. Most zones had a couple grinding spots, and then you were expected to go into the dungeon of the zone. When the focus changed from grinding mobs to questing, the old world zones were left in the dust.


But as has been mentioned, they're making an effort to redo them, most notably with EF and LS, both of which have been reworked to have quests and progresison on par with the new zones.

I'd note something I've observed: most of the attempts to direct new players away from the old zones comes from a small subset of players whose main goal seems to be getting to max level and max AA as quickly as possible so they can raid the zones from the most recent expansion (and only those zones). I tend to recommend players take it a bit slower, wander off and spend time enjoying the game rather than making a bee-line for 90/250. For that the old-world zones are better than the newer ones because there's more of them. Especially if you're bringing up several alts it's nice to be able to hit zones you haven't run through before.

Jrral@Unrest wrote:

While not knowing if it is "most" of the attempts, I agree wholeheartedly with this post. I don't have a problem with having the linear quest hub areas as I can avoid them and stick to the "old zones" that I like. I do have a problem with revamping ALL of the old zones (or deleting them , whatever) as it removes choice.

Zones from the original release originally had much more of a sandbox feel to them. You either got quests that sent you out all over a zone to explore it, or you explored a zone just to see what you could find. There were a few places where you'd find a concentration of quest-givers, but nothing that directed you to do quest_01 before being able to get quest_02. It was a product of it's time, based on what people had done in EQ1, but with many more quests. Outdoor zones were still places you had to be alert in, lest Domsquall floated by and ate you and your party for lunch. Mobs were much harder and there were ample places for groups to be challenged.
Close to six years and mountains of market research and observation into the direction other MMOs have gone later we have a very different dynamic. Outdoor zones are spacious game preserves where you are in more danger of dying by falling rather than dying in battle. Quests and content are far more organized and accessable into neat bite-sized chunks that fit in well for the player who has short periods of time to play, but so linear that they feel like the old Autotopia at Disneyland...You're driving a car, but you can't turn off the track even if you wanted to.
As things stand now, there is still a mix of both styles of zone. Search these forums for "Golden Path" if you are a fan of nice linear questing. It does a nice job of leading you through levels 1-??? ( I've mentored down my main to check out some of thhis, but I'm only up to being directed to Kylong since I stopped in KoS to do the new armor quests for both mentor and mentee (sp)). If you find you want more to explore, there are older zones that still have a more sandbox feel to the quests that have not been revamped yet, aside from inner-zone travel added

Nuhus wrote:

What SoE "got rid of" were the starting isles of FP and Q. They are working on changes to FP and Q, the major cities in Norrath and using other areas as starting areas instead.
FP & Q are very large areas broken down into many villages. Today you can go through those villages and pick up some great lowbee AA quests.
Yes, a lot of peeps were upset over the loss of the two isles which were identical - just one with an evil slant, the other with a good slant. One the other hand, a lot of peeps didn't use those starting isles - they just went immediately to the city of choice.
I think SoE did a nice job with New Halas as the newest starting area. All the particulars that were in the starting area are also in New Halas - very similar to Timmons Deep.

Hykaree@Runnyeye wrote:

There are different types of players: you have those who have the "end" game (what ever that is) mentality, who feel any MMORPG worth anything is measured by what is available at cap and little else.
Then you have the player who wants the "end" game but do it slowly experiencing more of a journey of getting there, enjoying the various zones, groups, instances, various tier raids, but they don't want to be left out of the "end" game where another xpac comes out and they still are "behind."
The other type of player is one who will play at what ever level(s) they choose without pressure or stress of being "uber". These peeps just want to have fun, enjoy the game at what ever level(s) they choose. They want to do it without drama and in a relaxed manner.
All of those types may or may not have alt-itis, have crafting characters (profession, transmuting, tinkering, adorning), decorating desires. Some will power up their adventure level then grind for those AAs. Others will accumulate AAs while leveling. And still others don't care - AAs will come as they play, just as levels will.
SoE is trying to have things in this game available for all types of playstyles. However, not everything SoE does will be readily acceptable by all playstyles. Hence you have those who are vocal to complain.
In revamping the shattered lands, there are many additional things added such as the instances in CL, EF, LP, LS. In some cases, gear has been upgraded (Cloud Mount timeline-KoS). In Sinking Sands, for instance, there is a different way to gain court faction. Prior to that, there were NO choices - only one method of doing so.
The shattered lands zones still need gear upgrades, but they do have great drops now for transmutting fodder.
As to directing players away from Shattered Lands? I'm not quite sure about that. SoE has already announced plans to revamp Q & FP and the surrounds. Just because a player starts in Neriak, Gorowyn, New Halas, Kelethin doesn't mean the Shattered Lands are closed to them.
Yes, a lot of the questlines direct players toward BBM - prolly cause it's open to good and evil, whereas CL and ANT are still areas dictated by good and evil. I suspect that will change in the future.
Those with alt-itis quickly learn there are a lot of AAs in those lower T-1 & T-2 (tiers) and will lock their characters at 10 or 15 or 20, etc. and milk those quests for AAs in ANT, CL, DLW, TD, NH, GFay before heading on to BBM, TS, NEK.
For the fun of it, I took a character I made in NH through all those mentioned.....except CL. At level 18, I had 47AAs and I had only done two of the villages of Q plus the caves in addition - in about 10 days of inconsistant play with just a few short of 500 quests completed. I'm sure there are those who can do all those quests in less than 4 days. A friend of mine has a level 25 character who is up to 76AAs!
So far, I like some of the changes and I look forward to more.

Personally, I prefer the old zones.
They tend to have more quests, as well as be more interesting overall, with things like random nameds that can spawn. The downside to them is that you do wind up spending a lot more time traveling back and forth. But that is something that is becoming less of an issue, with new horse/griffin points.
The new zones seem to be set up just to get you the 10-15 levels to move to the next zone. They are rather meh, boring, and get repetitive quickly when you run multiple characters through them. You do what little there is there, no variation. They are essentially what is wrong with a lot of MMOs today. All focus on ease, less focus on quality, quantity, and the little extras that make things great.
I wouldn't mind seeing Antonica and Commonlands redone a bit though. Both are large zones that could stand to have a few more quests and be a bit more hub/area focused. Say 3 or so camps with quests for about 3-4 level range each, and the areas for those quests relatively nearby. Using Antonica as an example, the 2 central towers could hold quests for the lowest levels, then you'd move to a hub near the TS griffin tower and the keep, and after that, the Oracle tower.

Priddles@Crushbone wrote:

Thank goodness. SF is the worst over land zone in the game quest wise largely because of the extramely linear progression.
Priddles@Crushbone wrote:

I have always focussed on questing - I hate grinding. The old zone had plenty of quests to do, and unlike SF the numbers weren't padded with lots of trivial little quests not worthy of the name.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Well they haven't added anything suited to my playstyle for quite a while. I like to take my time levelling. I like to do different things on different alts. I like to have a wide choice of quests available so I can do the ones that suit me at the time.
Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Not true. There were two methods from the start - tokens and quests. I always preferred quests, though did not like the initial repetitions, but I know some people just massacred guards for tokens, or even just bought tokens.

Terron@Splitpaw wrote:

Just in the handful of zones I did on a NH character - NH, TD, DLW, the Caves, ANT, GFay, and a couple villages of Q - I have done 2 quests short of 500 - and just about 98% of them were AA quests. None of my other characters ever did all those - they usually started - did the quests there, went to ANT or CL, then hit one of the 3 - BBM, NEK or TS. So far, I have found not only quite a variety of quests, but some that I've never done before on any character. I, like you, prefer each character take their own path - however, some of the questlines were repeats from other characters. As long as I keep finding different content, I'm content.
Tokens are a recent addition to gain gear. I am not a fan of the tokens and tend not to do those instances over and over to gain a zillion tokens. Apparently, "methods" to you are an either token or quest situation. I never even brought the token into the discussion.
When I spoke about choices - let's take SS for example - in the past, if you wanted faction with one of the 3 courts of Maj'dul, you took a series of quests starting at the docks and slowly working your way up to enough faction to be admitted "conditionally" to the court of choice in Maj'dul. Then you had to continually prove yourself to that court through quests in Maj'dul.
Now, you have a choice - you can start at the docks, but you don't have to go to Maj'dul to finish up your faction. You can go to the "new" area near the oasis by PoF and run "writs" for faction and in no - time have complete faction with your court of choice. Yes, both are involved with questing - but with different choices on how to gain faction. There are no tokens in SS, so that wouldn't apply.
Tokens do not give you a choice. If you want the tiered armor, you can not quest for it, nor do instances in which the mob will drop a desired piece of armor. So, there is no choice. You have to run instances and/or a short solo quest to gain tokens until eventually you have enough to "buy" or have crafted the armor piece you wish. There would be a choice if there were more than one way of obtaining the armor - but there isn't - only tokens. And even that, tokens were introduced only in the last two xpacs - SF and TSO. Even so, my discussion was on Shattered lands - not the xpacs.

Alvane@Unrest wrote:

Tokens for faction with the courts in Maj Dul were in at DoF launch, and stuff.
I'm not a big fan of tokens for gear either, but I'm torn. Do you run the instance over and over again (a la NHT) hoping that item X drops? Or do you run the instance over and over again knowing that even if item X doesn't drop you can buy it?

Kurgan@Everfrost wrote:

True - my mistake - I should have known better - and I have a bunch already in waiting for two of my young characters, too!
As for me, I don't grind instances. For SF, I have so far 62 tokens since the release back in February. Only 8 more to go until I can make my shoulders - maybe in another couple months or so!
In the meantime I run in TSO gear with a sprinkling of a few SF jewelry pieces. So far, I seem to do fine solo healing all the instances I've done in SF - from the Hole stuff , Erudin (haven't done the Royal Palace yet) to Vasty Deep. And I haven't tried Vigilant, neither.
Occasionally when I think about it, I'll run that solo Mark quest from Paineel that has you doing something for Paineel, Pandas and Kerra kats.

Great disscussion. The reason I was looking for a list of new zones to progress through was not to plow my way to 90, I'm in no rush. It's that I remember leaving Qeynos for this first time years ago and realizing I couldn't finish quest chains without grouping which at that point wasn't a problem. Now however, with the lower levels running dry on players (because they're mostly 90) it will be almost impossible to find groups to finish quest lines in old zones...and I hate to abandon quest lines.

Kermithy@Crushbone wrote:

Many of the old zones have been revamped to make the overland content more solo-friendly. The current design is to make overland areas solo zones, with heroic content in the shared dungeons and instances. Right now Antonica, Commonlands, Everfrost and Lavastorm have all undergone revamps, and Thundering Steppes and Nektulos Forest have at least had the overland heroics trimmed down.