[p]At what point is the bruiser class going to get fixed so we have some type of thing to offer a raid. Atm we are pathetic and have no reason to be on a single raid over another class. Devs are you guys watching and playing the same game as the rest of us? I hope this fix isnt going to finally come till next expansion...... [/p][p]denubis befallen[/p]
If you wanted to be a class that guilds want more than 1 of on a raid you shouldnt have rolled a bruiser in the first place!
At what point did we become broken? I raid consistently and have asked to change mains to my Swash, and my GL and RL hate the idea because of how much I bring to a raid. Raid utility is not solely in your abilities, but also in how you play your class. There are very few classes that can just sit and mash buttons and be great on a raid.
[p]had no idea when i rolled the toon 2 years ago that raids now wouldnt need a single brawler on a raid. [/p][p] At what point did we become broken? I raid consistently and have asked to change mains to my Swash, and my GL and RL hate the idea because of how much I bring to a raid. Raid utility is not solely in your abilities, but also in how you play your class. There are very few classes that can just sit and mash buttons and be great on a raid. [/p][p]what utility? please enlighten me what utility we have that should Force a raid to have a single brawler on a raid. And princes is not worth while example because u can just have an alt brawler that is played for that encounter and rides the bench at every other point. [/p]
[p]This silly thing keeps resurfacing. Probably does so on paladin boards, and shadowknight boards, necromancer, conjuror, fury and warden boards, etc., etc. Friend, if you want to be a scout, be a scout![/p][p]There is absolutely nothing wrong with us. If anything, I prefer we didn't draw attention to us, thanks all the same.[/p][p]I have never had a problem gettting into a raid. Matter of fact, all too often we are trying to fill the last slot or two with anyone.[/p][p]If you're in a raiding guild, and they won't let you in because you're a bruiser, find another raiding guild. There are a dozen or more on each server. You unhappily found the only one dumb enough not to appreciate you. If you are good at being a bruiser, the others will not make that mistake.[/p][p]If you are getting into raids, but aren't happy because you are not the best at ability X, betray to Qeynos. That queen can always use another monk. And hey, they get a group heal! And shiny buttons! [/p]
[p]You are severlly undervaluing us denubis.[/p][p]We(bruisers) can parse ~2k dps w the right gear and decent group setups. We are great for all raids that require fighter dps. We off tank ok. (True probably comparable to rogues now). stone deaf/closed mind and self cure and heal are fantastic self reliant abilites no class gets that i use religously in raids (as well as fake death). Our kos AA's are rather lackluster but EoF gave us drag. Which again is one of the greatest raid utilities in EoF. [/p][p]This ability specifically allows a bruiser to postion a mob better then any other class. Deal with mem wipes like no other and can completely make certain fights easier. Aoflame has a rooted epic add that aoe's. A single bruiser completely negates this mob from effecting the raid. [/p][p]i dont know what you really want. I see what you mean but really what do you want. The only plausible role they cna give a brawler is to reinstitute fake death pulls. [/p]
[p]I agree with Gungo, and going to repeat a lot of the same.[/p][p]First off you scream give me something another class has. The rest of us are screaming NO we already have it, dont do that, they might take away from our class. If you want what another class has, reroll. Its that simple. Bruisers cant do what wizards can. Bruisers cant do what Scouts can. Scouts and wizards cant do what Bruisers can. If you think the game is Tanking, Healing, DPS, Good Luck raiding Labs. I hope you get full excarnate and those shiney weapons. There is so much more we can do.[/p][p]Drag. Only Bruisers have an ability like this. When pulling Taranix into the water sometimes he does not come in all the way. PurrroBLEM! But with drag, every pull can be positioned exactly where you want it. Your guild wont suffer from the "AW Fishsticks.. bad pull bro, we'll get it again" If you don't have this, you should get it. It makes you a key asset to your raid force. If your guild doesn't want to use it, it's their choice. Not only positioning, but moving ... QUICKLY...[/p][p]What class can teleport an epic 30meteres near instantly? Bruiser can. Sonic Fists + Drag. Blam. Who can absorb a the main tanks ae damage without tanking damage themselve? bruiser can. Stone Deaf + Intercede. A lot of bruisers dont even think this far into their class... and when it comes time it makes you crucial. Gives the raid something they couldnt do before. Where are these things needed? Perhaps in helping split a pull from adds. I wont say where its helpful, but I know some people would like adds split from the name a lot faster [/p][p]Bruisers Parse really well. Im suprised some scouts aren't upset. Again it all comes to the player. I've seen some bruisers parse 400 consistantly. I've seen some parse 1600-2000k consistantly. On a five minute fight in MIS, I parsed 1418, which was only 100 dps less then scouts in my group. Five minutes isn't a short spiked damage fight, and being in same group, we shared the same buffs so we didn't benifit from one another. I wans't even specced dps at the time.[/p][p] We get Stone Deaf. Some scouts get a AE blocker but its on a much longer recast. We can sit in every other AE and continue to dps. When they call dps out for a AE, its up to you to empower yourself with Stonedeaf to know you can stay in. You also gotta know what the AE is.[/p][p]Its not just 3 Princes anymore that we're pretty much required for, but how about Chel Drak. That is a raid that every guild can do. You want to tear those warriors down with a beserkers whopping 1k dps? How about a Paladin? Everyone knows the best dps from a tank comes from brawlers HOLLAA![/p][p]Brawlers who want to step up have to show guilds they're not just another brawler. Guilds are afraid of the 400dps brawler. They're better off recruiting a Inquisitor and begging them to go Battle Cleric. The guild I am in now, I applied to. The response I recieved, and knew I would recieve, was "Sorry we're not looking for a brawler atm, please apply in the future." [/p][p]My response was to that was this, "I checked your website, you only have one active brawler and I spoke with them. They aren't as active as they used to be. They also did not have a problem with me joining the guild. Im not looking to fill a open brawler spot. Im applying as an exceptional player to be reviewed for long term progression in the game. I've gone ahead and collected resist gear. Even though some of it is garbage, I can get any resist to 8k. On top of that I've got most of my masters with only 7 adept III left. You can expect a steady 700-900 dps out of me even in a garbage group. In a good group I can garuntee 1k-1200. With good gear I will give you 1500dps. (I now parse 1400-1900 btw consistantly even when Crane Flock and Knockout Combination are down.)"[/p][p]The next day I was recruited, and Im now a member in fully fabled gear and fully mastered (Including those masters brawlers say they dont really want/need, I got them). I've only been in the guild for 30 days and my Fae Bruiser BOOYAH was created Febuary 1rst. SO between now and then, with all my hard work, Ive surpassed players that have been playing since release. I have scouts asking me for tips, cause if I dps near them, they know they should be dps even higher.[/p][p] It's all about the player. If you want advice, feel free to shoot a /tell oasis.mylinda, If I dont answer Im passed out or AFK. I'll talk gear, I'll talk dps, I'll talk AA. Im very analitical and experienced. I can give facts and numbers, instead of just this is what I read on the forums.[/p]
[p]Dandelize, that was about as expert a write-up of raid work regarding us as I have ever seen. /applaud [/p][p]I have never understood bruisers who aren't using all those CAs. I have a whole hot-bar of them that rarely get used solo, infrequently while grouping, but mashed and mashed again while raiding.[/p]
[p]Even if you ignored everything else you wrote (which you shouldn't) this is brilliant. This if nothing else is worth the price of admission. [/p][p]Well said Dandelize. :thumbup: [/p]
[p]You guys are very ignorant to the fact that there is no reason to have us in any raid. Drag? Drag is the reason? why would u ever need it? maybe one encounter the AoF but that is about it and people continue to beat it without it. If adds get by ur MT or OT and that is your rational then ur OT is poor. 2k dps? with that same group rangers do 3k+, swashies can do 3k and offer more debuffs, and aoe immunity atm, and much much better aoe dmg, brigands still do more dps then u and offer the best debuffs in the game, and assassins u run into the 3k plus dps not our 2k dps and offer more utility. When is the last time a bruiser did 2.7 or 3k zone wide in fth or put up 2.6k zonewides in mmis? [/p][p]Tank? we cant tank [I cannot control my vocabulary]. KoS completely different story. Crusaders Warriors can tank anything in the game, this is not the same as brawlers. We cant tank [I cannot control my vocabulary] that is worthwhile. Why bring a bruiser in a raid if we cant tank anything? Be better off bringing a zerker or an sk who brings more ultility and dps buffs then us, or even a pally as amends [I cannot control my vocabulary] so one of ur other dpsers can go all out. Then if your tank did go down or u need them to take agro, they could easily grab it.[/p][p]So we are the gimpest tank in the game who cant tank any avatar or any name that is worthwhile, and do **** dps and offer no buffs or debuffs that is worthwhile to the raid when compared to cloth or even scouts. So DRAG is worthwhile enough to have a bruiser in a raid? It is kind of laughable if you really believe that. Again, there is no reason to have a brawler in a high end raiding guild that is a main. [/p][p]Oh and that intercede comment....i have no comment to that.[/p]
First of all, 3k zonewide for any non hardcore uber raiding guild for any class is going to be near impossible. And to follow logic with you, lets just get rid of rangers to and bring all wizards because they do better dps and have better buffs. And yeah, maybe we are playing a differrnt game, because last I checked people who raid in everquest are actually a minority. So maybe the fact that bruiser is more than capable of soloing makes up for their lack of luster when you compare it to classes like brig/swash. "had no idea when i rolled the toon 2 years ago that raids now wouldnt need a single brawler on a raid. " 2 years!? You didnt notice maybe when you were leveling that plate tanks and scout/mage dps was where it was at? Really if raiding if your motivation just reroll your "broken" bruiser and make a swash or brig, really because the majority of us are going to say we arent broke. We never will be parse topping or a raid tanking class, its not how we are designed. Gonna have to learn to play your class or deal with not being able to find a guild who wants you. If you think bruisers suck, search for the guild NPU and look at their bruiser. Most HPS worldwide on the ladder @10k or so. I mean if bruisers are so broken why would all the hardcore guilds have at least one. They must just feel sorry for them.
[p]Look, Dandelize explained it to you in as explicit terms as one can. If all you want to do is click the same six things over and over, then, yeah, Bruiser is too complicated for you. Scout or mage is more your venue. What we do in a raid changes from raid to raid, because it depends on what happens in the raid. There's no formula the CAs that I only use in raids. And while I never - or hardly ever - top a scout or mage in DPS, I've never had one save me when I get jumped, because a) they can't and b) I'm a bruiser and don't need rescuing. However, I can pretty much count on having to bail one of them out each raid, sometimes each fight. And compared to other fighters, I still out-damage (pardon the neologism) any plate, excepting maybe berzerkers with all their crazy AoE.[/p][p]Nobody can do what we do in a raid. I'm sure no one in your raid says, "OK - whose going to Drag if the main fighter looses agro?" but maybe instead of whining about what we don't bring, you should be educating them, or better yet, demonstrating what we do bring. Just because it doesn't appear at the end of a parse log doesn't mean we aren't contributing, even excelling.[/p]
Madmoon wrote: Don't know what game you're playing, but my Monk sure as silk dosn't have a group heal.
Godsgift4040 wrote: [p]Dude.[/p][p]You're not the best tank, but you're not the gimpest tank. You're not the gimpest brawler either. You actually have some raid utility as well. If my monk had your tanking ability, dps and raid utility, i'd be pretty happy. [/p]
It is not raid content that Bruisers are broken but heroic content. If you hate solo'ing or ever tried leveling a bruiser to 70 exclusively as a group main tank then be prepaired to spend hours lfg. If you pay attention to chat chanels at all you will probably see every five minutes people spamming "group needs plate tank for xyz dungeon." The reason I try to exclusively group is because I play on a PvP server where solo play is not recommended by any class. When I do solo PvP I have to say bruiser is probably the worst PvP class there is. I have had my **** handed to me by every other class. When I shelved my Bruiser and rolled a warden it was just the oposite and I no class could take me down solo. So in order for Bruisers to be "fixed" they really need a boost to their abilities to tank heroic content and better PvP survivability.
[p]Why do we need fixing!? Bruisers do what they want! We have abilities that allow me to do what i want. [/p][p]I can tank, dps, stun a mob, fear another, feign pull, short duration mez, go immune to stuns/ root/ fear/ etc..., absorb 3 magic hits, hit the KO combo, drag mobs, teleport, fight without a weapon, use throwing daggers, do nice aoe dps, keep the group from having to start over (with a feather and FD) when a wipe happens. I rarely have to mend...[/p][p] [/p][p]whats the deal? we're uber. Bruisers are good at NOT having a defined role. we do what we want. Plate is gonna tank, scouts and casters are gonna dps, healers will heal. we do what we want.[/p][p] [/p][p]uber.[/p][p] [/p][p] [/p][p] [/p]
[p]Agree with most the replies.[/p][p]Bruisers aren't broken. Some players are but not bruisers as a class.[/p][p]I can empathize with not feeling you're at your best as a raiding bruiser, since raiding is perhaps most efficient with specialized roles and you as a bruiser are an unspecialized class. *shrug* Still exceptionally useful though, providing tactics for special pulls, drag, feign, avoidance buff on other groupmate. I don't raid much, but when I do I'm at least in the parse, usually tied with most the scouts. Granted, my dps wouldn't be nearly so high without scouts there to debuff but again *shrug* we all got our part to play. When a wipe occurs, I've been the one to rez because I'm the one who survives. When someone pulls aggro, I can take the aggro off them 100% of the time, without fail. Every raid I've been on, I've saved the main tank's life at least once. I survive AoE's that everybody else runs from. When people are stunned, feared, dazed, stifled, mezzed, charmed... there I am, still pushing my kung fu out like nobody's business. As a monkey guru, the main tank leaves the raid at the end of the night with a LOT more armor condition left than he would otherwise. Granted, we shine the most in heroic encounters, really one of the best and most fun classes around... but we're not useless or broken by any means when it comes to raiding.[/p][p]Bruiser = most independent class[/p][p]Raiding = most cooperation intensive activity[/p][p]You're not going to be the star of the show, and you'll need to be creative and on the ball to be as useful as you can be. If you've been at it for 2 years though and still don't see your own worth, time to stop complaining and move on. Either to a new class that you do see the worth of, or to a new raiding guild that would appreciate what you bring to the table.[/p][p]I for one am afraid of any change to our class because I am personally immensely happy with my performance, from soloing, to heroic tanking/dps, to raid support. Only thing that would make me happier would be tsunami for bruisers and stone deaf for monks, letting us have equal immunities for both melee and magic for the sake of epic pulls to assist raid movement or diversion during debuffs. Even then *shrug* I'm happy as it is.[/p]
