Are summoners still doing ok?

Discussion in 'Mages' started by rutro, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Xellium Active Member

    Swarm pets are a very large portion of the parse, in particular Communion and Aqu Swarm are ridiculous if used correctly.
    The sum of all the pets is greater or = to Apoc and Cata when done right.
    I have to try my *** off to beat a Conj on every parse, if I slack off at all I get beat, and I'm good at what I do.

    Please note that I do not play a Conj so I only know what I see from my guild.
    I tried playing a Necro once and I was BAD BAD BAD.
    I excel at Wiz/Warlock, I can answer just about any sorc question for certain and that's about it.
    I just happen to like math and spreadsheets and have crunched the numbers on a lot of other classes this xpac.
  2. Vogie Active Member

    I'm sorry I don't play a Conj so I can't pretend I know what buttons to press. The people I mentioned play them at a competitive level they could possibly help if you ask them in private on Discord. I gave you exactly what you asked for names, they aren't in my guild I can't share parses with you sorry.
  3. Vogie Active Member

    I am now familiar with who I am talking with so without making guild tension I am going to end with this: what you know from previous expansions doesn't always play forward into new expansions. Just because someone wasn't top dog in TOT or KA doesn't mean they aren't good now.
  4. Arkmarux Active Member

    Any conjurer who thinks they can't be competitive is probably just use to the old conjuror playstyle of /petattack /afk, and they aren't used to pressing more than 3 buttons which by Mark Johns posts in this thread is exactly what they are doing wrong and are getting thrashed on the parse so they came here whining.
  5. rutro Active Member

    For me this seems like a healthy debate. It sounds like all of you know what you are talking about. I believe that I have the answer that I am looking for- the disparity of dps is not so great as to sway one way due to preference of play style. Thanks all!!
  6. Revanu Well-Known Member

    Most summoners are bad. End of discussion.
  7. Dotuming Active Member

    Conjies are still in an ok spot but there is inherent issues with spells upgrading, especially with going to Ancient tier. Swarm pets in particular are an issue going from grandmaster to ancient level and are seeing "maybe" a 3% increase whereas other classes are seeing direct damage increases in the 15% range and don't have to deal with the fun "can't see target" due to ground level or "your pet must be in combat to use this ability" issues.

    Summoners in general have way too many spells/AA's that are completely broken, don't work, and will not/do not upgrade to current level. Id go into more detail here, but I have already posted about them multiple times over the years.

    As far as stading on the parse goes....excluding parses of less than a couple of minutes, the straight fact of the matter is that all things being equal (Player skill, Pot, Fervor, group buffs, CB+overcap) a warlock will beat the conjie by 10 - 20%. Does it matter? Not at all. People get too fixated on what is the current flavor when you know DB keeps changing them to get people to use cash to upgrade them to be more competitive. Conjies had our day in the sun after being in the dark for ages. It is still a fun class to play and we definitely have the extra options that other classes don't have when it comes to utility such as being an off tank for raid mobs in a pinch, power feeder, caller of slackers etc...


    Some will disagree with me but as far as using a set rotation for casting spells...dont. Unless your brand new to the class and are just learning, a firm set rotation will just lose you dps as every fight is completely different. Get to know what each spell does and what situations you should use them in.
    Vogie and Revanu like this.
  8. Mark John Member

    Thanks all for the discussion, I appreciate it.
  9. Vogie Active Member


    I agree with you 100% and couldn't have said it better myself, players have to adapt to the situations at hand. It not only matters what buttons you press with Celestial Gate procs but moreso what you press after the proc has faded.
  10. Enigma Active Member

    The problem with summoners in comparison to say warlocks and rangers is the lack of sustain dps, especially in tier 3 fights where the duration of combat can exceed 3mins or more. Makeshift arrow/cata/apoc are all doing very good on long tier fights and its the reason why they can sustain great numbers for long periods of time.

    If they either allowed summoner swarm pets to get all shared stats or increase the duration then i can see that gap closing. I think it would be cool if say the ranking of each tier of spell for swarm pets also increased the duration of those swarms pets, for example apprentice would be the base duration of 8 seconds for communion and next tier will add 2 seconds then next tier would be 3 seconds added etc all the way up to additional 15 seconds at ancient for communion.
  11. Dotuming Active Member

    I would agree that summoners sustained dps could use a few tweaks over longer fight durations especially considering how limited our actual spell contingent is. Maybe if they would actually do something with petrify to make it viable to actually cast, or change vampire bats to something useful it could help a bit. I think the main problem though is actually the different tier of spells though as they have evolved from 100 - 110. The amount of luck and resources required to ancient our swarm pets is huge, then, only to be disappointed in the minuscule increase that it gives us reminds me that it was the same thing last expac. Going from GM to Ancient did absolutely nothing except cost 10 million plat.

    As i mentioned above where parsing is concerned, summoners have the ability to still do ok. Yes other classes are on top now, but like i said, we had our heyday. It could be worse...we could be assassins!
  12. Arkmarux Active Member


    This is exactly what I tell people when I hear "Wizards are bad, warlocks are op, bring back Fiery Blast etc..." You need to adapt to how a class changes, there is nothing wrong with wizards but yet people still have this idea that there is.
  13. ishkabibble New Member

    summoners are in a good spot, necro playstyle hasn't really changed for me and general mechanics are still the same. spike with efficient spells/asc and keep aggro in check. playstyles are going to be personal but the general rule i've always gone with is that necros are 60%/40% caster/pet and conjs are 60%/40% pet/caster. you can play either class with that in mind and do fairly well. if you pick apart act and min/max than you find which spells/asc are most efficient for each fight
  14. Twisty Active Member

    if you remove ascensions, current necro split is about 80/20 with 20 being epic pet and your spells are mostly GM with some ancients

    it'll be about 75/25 if you're mostly expert spells

    accounting soulburn as your spell, not pet's

    if u want to keep ascensions in for some reason it's about 93/7 on t3 fights
  15. ishkabibble New Member

    it's probably more closer to that, the concept is the same necro>pet pet>conj
  16. Twisty Active Member

    i haven't dissected current conj parses to give numbers like for necro, but i'm certain the old addage of pet > conj hasn't been true for a long time either. pet's damage from spells cast onto pet is player's damage in this equation

    before epic pets, source of damage (whether it's u directly or pet) had some consequence, particularly for conjurors as the pet could easily steal aggro and die. back in the day summoning pet wasn't instant so was kinda a huge deal. this made it arguable whether spells that u cast to cause pet to do damage should be viewed entirely as ur damage or some-percent-split between u / pet. today that's not an argument - anything but pet's passive damage is ur dmg. and while conj's pet passive damage is lot higher than necro's, it's far, far less than 50% total
  17. ishkabibble New Member

    that's cool, i was trying to speak in general terms since there is a lot to account for, your numbers aren't going to be the same as mine for a number of reasons, but there are general aspects you can look at, if you want to get into specifics than you have to name which fight at what point with classes and numbers in raid and group. there is a lot you can do to min/max, some you can control and some you can't.... and i'm sure you can use the same concepts from when you did play a conj to now and still parse well enough ;)
  18. semisus Well-Known Member

    This would be nice or perhaps a new class rune that gave 100 fervor to swarm pets or chance to reset swarm pets
  19. Adoninilol Well-Known Member

    Every time I see Elamite post it amuses me because no one remembers who he was back in the day.
  20. SacDaddy420 Active Member

    Since it seems eq2 is straight up p2w now, I wonder how many accounts one has to steal to get full supercharged easy mode buttons i mean ascentions on your toon. Maybe this sad cat can tell us.

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