A Plea on Overland Zones in Velious and Beyond

Cusashorn wrote:

This is completely wrong. They could do something against it and they did. Later on most important nameds were snare/root immune. They just didnt care if people grinded hours and hours by kiting mobs or killing nameds which took people 2-3 hrs to do perfect kiting.

Cusashorn wrote:

They could add ranged spells to mobs... its not like the mechanic doesn't exist.
The ability to kite is in game because some people like kiting.

While I agree I would like to see more open land, you also have to remember alot of the coolest looking formations IRL are in effect land mazes, like more or less any and every canyon, and places like Yosemite Valley. And while yes you "CAN" climb Half Dome, it is not really recomended unless your an experianced Backpacker.
I would however love to have the ablity to get to the top of those caynons wich generally are relitivly flat, as well as run around inside them.

kela wrote:

I have no problem with the occasional land-maze, problem is we already have too many. I would love some more wide open land. It gives a sense of depth and RP immersion.
I guess part of me remembers getting lost in South Karana or trying to find my way through the two Velious Zones I knew.
I'm not asking for flat-zones; hills, vales, climbables, even rivers, and trees (evergreens please dead ones like in New Halas look wrong) just not a fan of navigating outdoor dungeons, I'll go into a contested for those

Another reason for Overland zones that are vast are these New flying mounts (BTW would rather fly my Sokakar or Carpet then a griffin) Once you are up in the sky you will see the land from a high vantage point and vaster zones would do a lot for immersion.
BTW my guess for those who think content would be avoided forget that there can be ranged mobs and flying aggro mobs.

Shemyaza wrote:

SWG had it as well... I loved running up and over mountains with my Master Ranger.

TZabjade wrote:

I don't think you understand where I was comming from. Personally, what I think makes for an Epic landscape is the transition from wide open to for lack of a better term land mazes. Kinda like the area around the entrance to Nek Forest from CL, especally the aprouch to the contested dungon near there who's name escapes me, cause I spent little time on that side.
Part of what makes the Grand Caynon, grand is that it is virtually flat leading upto it, then boom HUGE drop, then flat on the otherside. If we could climb on top of some of these overland mases, I think it would make for a much better experiance.
As far as getting a Vaste feel while on a flying mount, one thing the devs have said is that IF the mountain or whatever, that causes the Maze is with-in the zone they will try and make it so that the restriction on how high you can fly will get you over that mountain. So that should still give you that Vaste feeling, as you would be above the much of the Maze looking down at the parts you can't goto. So for instance you might be able to fly from Greenhood(?) camp in Zek to DFC without having to go nearly all the way back to the begining of the zone, same with parts Everfrost and LS. Now Moors would be differant cause it has alot of caves and such, and hopefully we won't see much more of that going forword, though an occational cave is ok. Though what would really be cool would be a Contested dungon that links two parts of a zone, kinda like BlackBurrow did, but larger.
Lastly, Flying mounts will accually allow you to bypass content, because like with the fixed griffon routes, you can't fight from them while in flight, and the mobs can't fight you ether. People did bring up the possablity of it turning into a get out of death free card, both for the PvP Server and in PvE fights, and that seemed to catch them by supprize and they said they will look into that. My guess is that they will prevent the creature from entering flight mode while in combat, as the creater will fly and can be used as a standard mount too.

Wurm wrote:

The only issue I had with SWG was that it was kinda odd going up those nearly vertical cliffs in places like Dathmar... though as a ranger it was kinda fun too. As was finding the fastest way to get somewhere on a speeder that was on the opposit side of the mountain.

Zabjade wrote:

You sound like Toxxulia Forest didn't impress you. The map size isn't incredibly small there, it just seems that way with the architecture creating pockets of mob concentrations. All of the mobs being trivial ruined it for me more than anything. At 80 you can just run through the entire thing, nothing but a huge pile of mobs when you run through and stop is a threat.
I'd heard the epic surprises were removed as well, wouldn't want anything more than solo mobs anyway I suppose, people might need to interact or something.

Jalex wrote:

Not particularly, It was nice and all. I have no problem with wandering contested epics, just give them room for a fight.


Ke'la>>> I think you are mistaking a Pre-routed Griffin mount to a free flying mount that is basically a horse on stilts. (and mobs on Stilts) and Mobs with greater bow or magic range.
At least that is how I would do it (although I would include and auto-jump for cliffs etc.)

I was a druid at EQ1 launch. I thoroughly enjoyed the open wilds of Norrath and being self sufficient for a time. And they did nerf kiting early on before Kunark was even released. They added a damage penalty to dots that would only disappear if the mob was stationary and not rooted. They also capped xp from higher con mobs to discourage the kiting of red cons.
As others have said, kiting was never an exploit. But, they weren't happy with me soloing red cons in the Karanas so they tweaked things so that it would not be efficient.

Kiting aside, I too prefer wide open spaces with the next PoI on the horizon than being lead by the nose from one PoI to the next through a maze of canyons and passes. There is something be said for picking a direction and just being able to run with it. It gives a much greater illusion of freedom than being channeled through specific paths.

Overland zones need points of interest. Let's face it - little mazes and the such do add a LOT of character that zones would otherwise lack. Now, I'm all for a wide open sandbox zone and all... but it is so important to keep things flowing (logically at that!) and continually interesting. Honestly, if things didn't catch your eye or draw you in at any given point, you'd likely think a zone to be boring. Unfortunately, if you take character out, the zone would end up like that - boring. Just my two cents.

OH! I should add my opinion on this:
Flying mounts will give you much more of that wide open feel that you're looking for. If you mean wide open spaces for combat, well... there is plenty as is. Too much more and players would end up like they did in early EQlive.... 'Where am I headed? Where am I now? Wait, I thought I was headed to this place....'
If you're talking about simply being able to explore wide open spaces, I think flying mounts will take care of that in full.

There is nothing wrong with POI's I'm all for them. But I hate feeling like a Rat in a Maze when I'm outside a Dungeon.
I remember the Old Karanas they where HUGE not the dinky little Thundering steppes they are today. The Original Velious was also huge, you could explore for hours and not see it all. Most of the time my EQ1 Monk would hug the route from the PoK Book to Thug or follow the shimmering River to the Wyvern Caves (I hope the caves remain an outdoor area) I even made a foray into the Zone next to it that was on the edge of the Iceclad sea.
Zones can be wide open, with POI's like towers with Mobs or Bandit Camps or Wandering Neriakian Strippers

Wide open is not empty.

Aye, wide open can be full of content. We just hate feeling like we're being forced along certain paths by barriers. Besides, the in-game maps makes it impossible for all but the biggest idiots to get lost. (I hope my guild leader is reading this).

Regardless of kiting (must say I am a huge fan of it, playing a Necro in EQLive for years though ) I would love to see the vastness of zones that the OP has requested.

I thought Necro's Used Fear and pets to do Reverse-kiting

Zabjade wrote:

We did but that went out of style and effeciency years ago and I mean years. It is hard to control where a mob goes with fear but if you aggro the heck out of it, and it is snared, then you control where it goes and the pet follows behind it. And we also used root rot in tight spaces. We never really needed a whole lot of room to do what we did. We also used summon kiting and still do to a point. The dot doing less damage if the mob was snared/rooted went out almost a decade ago as well.

I am also greatly in favor of huge and sprawling overland zones. I can not stand Gfay and Lfay. I understand the reasoning behind their design but I tend to avoid them like the plague and Nek forest os one of the few lower tier zones I don't run unless I have to with my alts.

Zabjade wrote:

I couldn't agree more. I am sick of outdoor zones that are little better than mazes. Velious needs to be as good an expansion as Kunark.