since EQ2 is a PVE game, why do you care how i get my gear so much?

If this was really a 'righteous' call to have everyone get the same rewards for all gameplay styles you would be advocating for a removal of itemization progression entirely. You can only gain lateral progression or new appearance items or other cosmetic additions.

Instead you want powerful items just as much as anyone else but simply aren't willing to put in the extra effort for it. You keep insisting you are running content simply because its fun and for its own sake while saying you need to be able to get better gear. At the same exact time you look down on anyone who wants to get better gear through raiding or grouping.

Isn't soloing its own reward? If you need raid items to justify it, maybe its work instead of fun. Sounds like you are soloing for the wrong reasons.

I don't care how anybody earns their gear, but raid gear is stronger than heroic, is stronger than solo. If this wasn't the case I would not raid, the rewards are the motivation for me. As others have already pointed out the pg solo is a perfect example of what happens when an easier solo method is available to the same rewards. It doesn't matter that tokens come slower and it will take longer, the fact that I can login and get started and watch tv while I do means that's the path I will take.

Just like I ran solo key quests until I had everything, ran obulus until i had the burnt key, adv solos and pq's for frags, rtt and fg server. The path of least resistance will always be taken first.

In my opinion they already offer way too many bis items from solo play, I simply don't run groups while I have bis solo stuff to earn and that's not healthy for the game.

Yep... Social interaction is always something that tends to be outside people's comfort zone, the promise of better gear than anyone could access alone is the ice breaker and catalyst for the interaction between players that creates friendships in the game.

It's sad how most/many of us would vastly prefer to group for rewards, but won't go to the trouble if a viable option exist to solo. Proving grounds really is the perfect example of that. Makes no sense, but it's true.

This topic is always going to rear its unwelcome snout on a fairly constant basis. Not saying the OP is wrong to ask it (it's a legitimate question), but the opinions that bubble up as a result are usually rather discouraging. And the saddest part of all, is that if SOE (now DBG) had done one thing, this wouldn't be an issue (and please keep in mind I am rather indifferent as to whether I have "the best gear" - if I happen to not have the best gear, that's fine, and on those occasions I DO have the best gear, I have things in my life that are of greater concern than someone else getting gear equal to mine by choosing a different path).

And that thing is create distinct gear for each playstyle. As an example, I create a completely fictitious quest, questgiver, and rewards gained from said quest (although I would think such a quest to be extremely amusing were someone to create it). Attend:

The quest? The name of this quest is called Doughnuts for the Overlord. This quest is given by Captain Tira V'Misu, an officer of the Dreadguard standing on the docks in Port Naythex. She beseeches you to track down and recover the Mystical Deep Fryer of Norrathian Verisimilitude, which has been stolen from the Overlord's kitchens. It is by the powers of this appliance that the undercurrents of Baked And Frosted Reality As Norrath Knows It are maintained...Christanos herself has placed the good captain where stalwart adventurers can offer to assist in this most holy of endeavors - the queen of Neriak herself will richly reward those good folk who can recover the Deep Fryer and get the Overlord to finally shut up.

A series of steps, similar to either the orc or gnoll slayer lines, culminates in a special instance in the side of the hills of Evernight Cemetary just behind Rikantus' tent (though he plays no part in this quest). As you enter this instance, you have the choice of either the raid difficulty, or the solo/small group difficulty. Inside, you will face the insane halfling pastry chef named Madame Streusel and her Scullery Workers of Doom. You must defeat the waves of frothing kitchen help, and recover the Deep Fryer before Madame Streusel (the final boss) can turn it against you, for being struck by the circular, centerless foodstuffs as she flings them at you will overwhelm you with deadly Cholesterol of Arterial Death.

Upon your triumph, Captain V'Misu offers you profuse thanks, as well as a memento.

If you undertook the solo/small group finale, you are given the Doughnut of Absolute Antonican Amazingness, a chakram-style weapon usable by anyone that can employ a dagger. In addition, the graphic for this weapon can replace the cloak or backpack, appearing as a large metallic circle with handles and a sharp blade (if you've seen an episode of Xena, you get an idea of what it looks like...except way bigger). If it is merely in your inventory, you may employ the graphic, even if your class is not allowed to actually employ the weapon. And like the Dwarven Workboots, it may be altered to allow display on the wall of your house.

If you selected the raid instance, however, you are given the Doughnut of Splendiferously Sharp Serendipity as your reward. It is identical to the other Doughnut in all respects, save that equipping it will also provide a glittering black and gold graphic, that is a testament to your taking the raid plunge, and that no one who has not done the raid instance can have.

In short, this removes the complaint about "equally decent gear", while affording the raiders the ability to demonstrate their willingness to 'take the plunge', as it were. Want the graphic? Do the raid - because you can't claim the Doughnut that you have obtained isn't every bit as good.

Ugh.. not more particle effects

solo gear is balanced around solo encounters.
heroic gear is balance around heroic encounters.
raid gear is balanced around raid encounter.

if you don't raid, you don't need raid gear, if you don't do heroics you don't need heroic gear.

it's that simple.

i get you like the raid gear because when you go into a heroic or solo it's ez mode being overgeared, but the people running around with that gear EARNED IT, by pulling raid mobs again and again, working out the strats and do harder scripts and avoiding fail conditions that you don't see in heroics or solos.


if you really want raid gear that much then at the very least join a raid guild and bid on alt loot that just goes to people's alts and not their raid mains and be willing to fill in when needed, or you know you could be a main raider and earn the gear.

i get that people want the gear because it's the best ingame, that's part of why some raiders raid, others like the achievements and some like both.

just because this is a game doesn't mean that everything should be handed to you.



how would you feel if you spent a long while working on killing trakanon this expansion and you finally get it and put it on farm status for the gear and the devs turn around and hand out trakaon's loot to everybody?

pissed would be a colossal understatement


if you want the gear to raid ether raid or buy the loot with plat on alt bids when no raid mains are after it.

You can get a toon to 30k potency in purely solo gear, depending on the class. I've done all epics except the fighter one now and the most hilarious part is that I only had help from a single person to do them. This game is more solo friendly than ever and yet you still ask for more.

On that topic, let's make a list, shall we?
Ethereal offhand. Tier 3 raid gear.
Full set of armor from keys. Tier 1 raid gear.
Crafting cloak. Tier 3 raid gear.
Tome. Higher than T4 raid gear.
Level 10 ascension earrings. Tier 3 raid gear.
PG ring. Expert tier 3 raid gear.
8 fervor belt from thaulmbra. Soloable.
If you do your epic and pick up the 1 competent player it requires, you get a charm, ring, and ranged weapon guranteed.
Necklace of kunark. On par with T4 raid gear.
So that leaves you... 2 wrist pieces and your epic. There's your free raid gear. Enjoy.

Edit: Proving grounds gear and burnt key gear. All tier 3 raid gear. All soloable.

I've read through this entire thread and there's a point you are all skipping around or missing, not every solo player, plays solo by choice.
The game designers set the requirements for the group and expert zones , but players feel entitled to set the bar far higher than the designers ever would.
One of the last times I stepped into a group for a standard heroic zone run , I felt as though my undies and socks were checked for cleanliness, the group leader actually sent me a tell to let me know he felt my gear was under par, and then kicked me from group.
To add insult to irritation it was the same zone I'd successfully done with my hubby the day before ,with just two of us. I only tried to get in a group for it ,for speed and company , silly me.
Point of this story is you need the gear to get the groups , but you need the groups to get the gear.... its a fairly unpleasant merry-go-round to ride.
In short , I agree with Yannos, there should be more ways for solo players to get the goods. and I'm not talking about an "easy mode" more steps more time on the solo line. time I have , patience for elitist attitudes not so much.

Yannos is talking about raid gear... not grouping gear.

Snikkety listed above a bunch of gear one can get solo.

And most importantly PUGGING for the most part has always been a toxic environment. If your guild is just your husband and you, try to find other little guilds to do stuff with.

Our parties are members of 3 to 4 little guilds who made friends while doing Epic 2.0 and now have enough people to do expert heroics every weekend.

I said a few times I don't pug, that does not mean I avoid contact with strangers though. I usually always volunteer to help when someone asks for it in regards to heroic content needed for quests. And I've made good friends doing so. This expac it has been mostly epic 2.0.

Pugging for me is a group of random strangers trying to do heroic content as quick as possible to either get gear (usually to SLR) or coins. And it sounds like it was a coin grinding group that you ended up in and they decided that you would cause them to be in the zones longer than they wanted to be. I dislike people like that, but I do understand why they are the way they are. The devs forcing us to grind a ton of coins for BiS gear, that has a finite amount of time to do it in, always leads to such toxic behavior.

My suggestion is to look for people who like to play the same way you do and group with them. Here is a good example of a way to do so using the forums.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-i-mean-get-yer-epic-2-0.580612/#post-6461038

And if you happen to play on Maj'dul send me a tell, we usually have one or two spots open (mostly on the weekends, but some of us do play during the week).

Please let something like this be the next expansion's secret zone.
Kthxby

I understand what you mean as far as why do the raiders care what gear solo players have. IMO, the raiders mostly care due to the feeling of accomplishment and in some cases- elitism. It is mostly the people that do not have to work, and or spend 10 plus hours a day playing this game. With that said, I think more choices in gear appearance and rare gear should be able to be found by both solo and raiders. If both have access to it, what is the big deal..right? I like to think that I am wearing something not everyone else on the server has. LOL! (whether it be just looks or stat wise) In other words, give solo players some unique appearance gear or some other kinds of carrots to chase. Make some gear sets truly hard to get or find. Or ya get what we had here yesterday- the Bobsy twins all running around with the same gear. Bring back unique items and gear PLEASE TY!

/broken record
I sympathize with the OP. I can't believe he actually means the question though.
Why raid if you can solo for the same gear? For the satisfaction of dying repeatedly to figure out the strat? And so it takes 24 times as long to actually get the gear since everyone else is rolling/bidding against you?
Why group if you can get the same gear solo? I think the solo PGs firmly answered this question. You don't.

So, group and raid drop better gear than solo- so that there is a reason to group and raid. And as an MMO, group and raid content are part of the game, so having better gear as rewards for teaming up is PART OF THE GAME.
/end broken record

well .. when u need to run 4 experts a day .. u want it to go fast.

but people check too much gear and stats ... I played with a well geared wiz who can't do damage and cannot absorb magic even when asked. and he has 30k potency and does less than my tank.


but u can have so great gear without grouping or do as little possible grouping as u want. u can get as said before

4 ascending earrings and the goblin earring
tradeskill cloak
epic quest charm or the brood charm or the tome
most classes have neck is epic quest
PG ring and for mages epic quest ring
ethereal off hand
epic
ranged or main hand epic weapon quest
Proving ground gloves, forearms and legs

if u did fallen gates, then u could have feets, head
belt u get one for fighter epic

so u need shoulders, chest, (head feet) and wrists that u cannot get solo (unless lucky and got burned key)


even if soloing, if u put enough time in the game, u can have great gear, so solo players really cannot complain for this xpac. but at the same time if u want to do groups and experts but didn't put time to gear a bit, don't expect PuGs to carry u. it's not what PuGs are for.

find a guild with nice people.


and we had similar threads a lot.

sure we all want great gear ... but it solo is too good than it makes group and raid obsolete

same for group .. if heroic gear is too good then it makes raid gear useless .. which shouldn't be.


and u need group to gear or u need plats to buy.

to me ... DBG should have done like in WoW and FF14 ... Item level .. not resolve. So people NEED certain base item level to even go into the zones, and ditch resolve.

@Earar and Snikkety

All what you pointed out is basically right, nevertheless you are comming to a wrong conclusion. Raiders are better equiped than soloers and the ratio is ok today. Right, a soloplayer can get a lot of items similare or better than raidgear, nevertheless in total his gear will be clearly worse. It should be like this and it is like this.
I can take myself as an example. I am Paladin and a 90% soloer, with maybe 10% grouping in my guild. That is just my way and its ok for me. I got Epic2 by grouping and I got most of the orange runes, proving ground amor, all 4 ascension classes etc. by playing solo. I can say I reached 90% of the very best what I could get. Some hundred more coins from proving ground would be enough for 100%.
First at all it took for sure more time than running a raid 3 times a week.
Second I can compare my stats with a real hardcore raider and I can see significant differences, not in all stats, but in many.
- 24 million HP against 65 million.
- 30 k pot. against 40 k pot.
- 0. 9 million abitilty mod. against 1. 2 million
- 57 fervor against 100
and so on.

We can take now a view to the dramandous difference of health. Most of our corresponding orange runes are the same, but they are only multipier. The main difference is in stamina and additional HP on the amor. The multiplication of 2000 stamina with 200% ist just 2 times more than with 1000 stamina.

In addition I like to remember raiders are getting the mytical epic 2 now, what is clearly better than fabled. I will never see it, because I do not raid and thats ok again. In the first time of Kunark ascending raiders had not any chance to kill the last necessary mob and many solo player had even problems to survive in Obol. Devs patched some good additional gear for both and the problem was disolved. In the beginning the gap between soloer and raider was dramandous big, simply too big. Devs added gear for both and the gap became smaller, but it still exist, second problem disolved.

Devs made a good job and after a bad time at the beginning the game is very well balanced now.

well ... your stats are great for experts

24 million HP and 30k pot .. you are expert geared and unless you're a tank you a ready to go kill terris thule


but your stats as solo player are the same as the stats of a raid player who hasn't cleared T4 yet. I mean our guild was working on T4s when a whole group disappeared from the game so now we are stuck since june .. and my stats not that much better

That being the case, then it's really not an issue, is it?

I know I ended up soloing my way up on skyfire, making my own guild, in part due to the gear issue when I started playing 2 years ago. while I have met some fantastic players, the game in general isn't very friendly towards new players and raiding. I gave up on pugs after a few months, it was a exercise in frustration, "you're not geared right, you need to go kill this and that, get that gear and yeah we might let you group never mind raid". so to enjoy the game I said screw it and soloed as I learned. there is a steep learning curve between the various tiers in an established game.

raiding gear should be different, the gear should be the ultimate achievement to allow you to go onto the next raid. it's a mechanic that allows large groups or guilds to achieve something together and that should be encouraged.

here's the but...

game styles have changed over the decades, time constraints etc... raiding is a massive time sink and not everyone has the time to do it anymore. game companies have to change to make money, if all they did was cater to one subset which can be a minority today, they will lose money. they need to cater to all types of players to keep out of the red and to encourage newer ones(yes those unicorns exist), yes it sucks and doesn't always work and some games have been dumbed down for this. it is what it is though and if we want these types of games to be our addiction, changes are going to happen.

I don't really have a dog in this fight and largely I think this is all just a matter of us talking at ourselves as the loot structure isn't going to change in my opinion. For the record, I agree with the posts of Neiloch, Soteria, and others of similar opinions above.

That said, I wanted to make comment about this one part of your post. Yes, doing the epic 2.0, PGs, ascensions, etc. would take more time than running raids 3 times a week (for the time you are working on the epics and ascensions which do have a defined ending point.) However, what you seem to be missing is that the raiders who care would be doing everything you just described PLUS then running the raids 3-4 times a week. They aren't exclusive of one another and in fact the raiders are typically obliged to get the best items available from solo, heroics, PGs and PQs because if they don't, they will be far more likely to fail in their raid attempts. This is not true for a solo player. I can run my lesser geared alts through solo content with great success. Why? Well, it's far easier content. I can not take those same characters and swap them into my raid slot. Resolve alone would mean that A) they literally do zero damage and B) they would die, quickly and repeatedly.

Meh, anyway I said more than I really intended to and stand by my first sentence.

nope, no issue...that is why they wont change Epic 2.0 to be soloable.....

also, incoming spoiler alert.......


pretty much each archtype epic 2.0 class has at least 2 out of the 5 quests that are purely solo.