So what do you think of the DarkPaw Games announcement?

I think the emergence and specialization of companies producing game engines is a good thing (Unreal, Lumberyard, etc). That' a huge and incredibly complicated chunk of development that benefits the industry by specialized outsourcing.

And as Feldon noted, there are ways to outsource the art as well and all the while technology continues to evolve allowing developers to push the envelope a little further.

One thing is for certain, folks have money to spend on MMORPG's, and they want to do so. Like any industry, it'll evolve by iteration, crashes and successes.

In many respects, it sort of feels like the industry as a whole is currently struggling to adapt to customers who have grown bored with theme park games. It's not that folks don't have an appetite for mmo's, it's just they don't see much that they find interesting.

As someone who enjoys pvp, I've been impressed with what they're building over at Intrepid; especially with respect to the engineering challenges they need to overcome to realize their vision for the game. They may not get all the way there, but man, they've really pushed things well beyond traditional boundaries and constraints, and that's pretty cool - It's what the industry needs.

Can the Everquest franchise come up with a cool next thing? Honestly, I'm a bit skeptical. Not because the team lacks talent, but because organization tends to be generally uninterested in transparent development and player feedback.

This is what I see that stands out to me, not that the other stuff wasn't interesting or right, but this sums it up very well.
A lot of players I believe feel this way, and it would be in the company's best interest to take these words to heart lest some other company come along and one-up this game..I have been a loyal customer for a long time but that doesn't tie me here if someone does it better, and with each new release that bar gets lower here.

Count me in Ceyarrecks!! I am not good at decorating although I try, but I can demo like a pro!!! *pulls out her sledge hammer and broom*

I am ready to start work right away restoring Norrath to all its glory!!!

If they wanted to use freelancer perhaps the decission to shut down player studio was the dumbest move yet.

By all means, curb the people that start sniping at each other, name calling, etc. But that shouldn't mean quashing all people who are expressing concern (or praise) especially if they're providing concrete examples and reasons.

while I certainly expect the use of the sledge hammer would be very cathartic, I somehow expect we will need jewelers screwdrivers and archiologist's brushes to attain what we all know is possible,...

That's an interesting question. What is the process for building a MMO? EQNext was aiming for innovation and the team went into it with confidence that they could create the necessary technologies. That turned out to be the gamble. I have read or heard more than one developer say that they think voxels along with dynamic content was a bad choice. Pathing in a changeable world was a technical issue. Perhaps the entire world should have been voxels. One big solid cube. Then make some of them transparent. Instead of digging holes by removing voxels, maybe they should have made them transparent when they were "removed". Then make a pathing algorithm that paths through transparent voxels. Who knows? lol. (empty voxels are empty spaces?) (Though if they do go with voxels, I really hope they don't make it like you can tunnel to China. You shouldn't be able to tunnel rapidly. EQ meets Dig Dug. No. Lol. I really liked destructibility but it can be overdone. If it is too easy it becomes meaningless. It should take a lot of power to blow up a stone bridge like in the demo. I didn't like the idea of the characters being like superheros. The warrior could tunnel or destroy stone by whirlwind. That was too much. That's my taste though. Knocking off a chunk of rock with a missed strike. That would be sweet. The world seemed like it was really soft and clay like. The voxels needed way more hit points.)

I think if money is an issue, you can build a small world and then build the systems needed to make the game. Once it is working on a small scale, then you scale it up. So you need the programmers, game designers, and those types first. Afterwards you need to hire an army of artists to make the world look great. That's a guess.

The free lancers I refer to are more small independent colmpanies that do art work, animate, and write a basic MMO and deal with multiple MMOs. Player studio was players making items for one game.

I prefer the conversation and debates stays here , if the thread is locked for serious debate .. that speaks volumes on there part. That is also the entire reason there in this situation in the first place.

To paraphrase the great Mandy Patinkin, I do not think that word means what you think it means. I honestly have zero clue what you are referring to when you keep repeating that "corporate and political discussions" should be kept away from the official forums. The examples you give seem to have more than a hint of bias, but I'm confused as to why.

What I could definitely do without, is 10 (or however many it's up to now, I'm honestly not counting) different replies saying we should take this somewhere else or the bad moderator man will hit us with the ban-hammer. So congrats - at this point, I believe we're talking more about different forums than the original topic- as Feldon said a few pages (!!) back, are you trying to get this thread locked?

P.S. I think we need one of the artistic folks to whip Dreamweaver up an avatar with a ban-hammer in a Thor pose, to help lighten the mood.

edit: Corrected my horrendous error - it was Inigo Montoya talking to Vizzini about "inconceivable." Lashing myself with a R.O.U.S. tail twenty times in penance.

The thread will not be locked for serious debate, but it is straying off topic and that will get it locked, among other possible reasons. If we can loop it back around that would be ideal.

I picked grumpy Froglock for a reason.

Alright in the interest to getting this back on track I am going to roll back quite a few posts.

Also.

Roshen/Roxxly operated the boards in their way, and I operate them in mine. Community moderation differs along different guidelines.

As long as we adhere to the rules set out, respectful discussion is fine, there is a difference between disagreement and attacking.

I have hedged excitement for a possible EQ3. I hope it's sub-only, with zero pay to win "mega-grindy end game stuff" like EQ2 has. There will be no prog TL server for me to escape to in EQ3 as it will be new. The launch game has to be up to snuff or I'll wind up leaving.

I hope Darkpaw is soliciting additional funding to come to them instead of trying to make the EQ franchise look more saleable.

Indeed. The Player Studio concept had so much potential to be incredible

Unfortunately with how games go today, some sort of Marketplace is probably inevitable. Now that the micro-transaction dam has burst in the U.S., the likelihood of it drying up again is (imo) very slim. FWIW, it was late coming to the U.S. compared to other countries like South Korea, Japan, Russia, etc. Games like Black Desert Online (Pearl or Kakao stores), Eve Online (Plex Store), the WoW store (mounts, services), Neverwinter Nights (Zen marketplace), and the Daybreak stable are just a small subset of examples.

No, we don't have to like it - but it's probably here to stay. I'm just hoping that there's some positives we're not thinking about, like this strategy allowing smaller studios to bring products to market that we'd otherwise never see (that's pure speculation on my part though, trying to find a "silver" lining.)

I remember an EQ2 that was very successful UNTIL the marketplace was added...its been that slippery slope ever since.
I remember a Battlegrounds that was very successful UNTIL they added to it.
I remember dungeon maker that was successful UNTIL they took away tokens.
I remember a dev team that interacted with the players and would take community feedback...AND would actually play the game.

The marketplace, krono, and greed killed this game.
How many other failed attempts at other games and how many millions have been wasted to get us where we are now?
Darkpaw will be more of the same unless the players unite and say NO MORE!
Personally I dont see it happening, but hey..its a fantasy game ;-)

I say, Give us a server without a marketplace and with all that stuff back they took away and lets see how it fairs.
It cant be any worse than the waste of time and effort Rivervale was.

I don't have an issue with shops, but games that drive people to the shop to facilitate progression will send me packing.

For example, ESO runs a massive shop and their stuff is expensive, but it's mostly fluff. I think they have some experience potions and reset tokens for some of their leveling systems. Anyway, they do a good job of rotating fresh inventory that's fun and they make a LOT of shop sales.

EQ2's shop model is p2w, expensive, and coercive which tends to lead create nagging little feelings of customer anger and resentment, both from those that buy and those that don't.

With fluff shops however, people buy because they WANT to, and this makes the customer customer buying experience a positive one.

Think of it this way: what makes you feel good about spending money, situations where you feel free and in control of the decision, or those where you feel coerced or manipulated?

But you know, people dump piles of money into these p2w mobile games, so there's that. I don't understand it, but they do.

P.S. Sadly, ESO is also a purveyor of loot boxes. There exists no word that adequately describes my loathing for these things. At the very least, I believe gaming companies should be required to post odds and payouts but would be most satisfied if they just disappeared altogether.

EverQuest 1 has been very successful with the marketplace and Krono. The problem with EQ2 stems more from issues game specific such as stat bloat and complexity than greed.

While I agree EQ2 may feel like P2W, it stems more from complexity (stat bloat) and the desire for instant satisfaction. The devs have offered in-game routes of obtainment where items such as Premium Edition mounts can be quested and mercs can be dropped.

I don't see how Daybreak/Darkpaw Games is making you feel coerced or manipulated. (At least more than if you walked into a store with advertisements and other marketing devices). Many people ignore subscription, the Collector Edition and Premium Edition expansions, and Cobalt Crates. If you feel any coercion or manipulation, it would probably be better to quit EQ2 and seek psychological seek.

The revenue from the shop and Krono likely helps the Free-to-Play community (EQ2 is more generous than EQ1 in F2P benefits; EQ1 almost requires All Access which few complain about).

Loot boxes are fine. People need self-control (same type of control you use at a casino or Las Vegas). Most EQ1 and EQ2 players are adults so the risk of minors abusing their parents' credit cards are very low.