Pack ponies won't be able to collect new tier?

worse it is like you can't do the kill the mobs quest unless you harvest your ammo for hours or days to have enough to kill mobs for one level.

It was never implied because we've never had to worry about it. They were just simply upgraded just like guild harvesters, etc. Items that are already in the game. It shouldn't have to be implied that I quest for something that should grow with the teirs as the game advances. On the flip side, it never was implied that it wouldn't. They whole reasoning behind it is exactly what caith stated. They want you out to explore the new expac. Tradeskillers aren't going to explore zones caith. They will visit the only overland that gives you nodes, which is one. Tada, day one all the crafters got out and experienced it. I know the team is short staffed, but the code is already in the game for new nodes since they have even doubled them. Not hard, not complicated, they just don't want to do it. Once again forcing a time gate. Plain and simple.

Looks like that is some common ground we share. You acknowledge it was never implied. And I continue to believe it was never promised, assured, guaranteed, or any which way. Some people assumed that because something happened in prior expansions, it WILL happen in all future expansions. They assumed wrong.

That seems to be a redundant position. Expansions have a history of changing things up in MMOs. Even things that were promised to never happen, can happen. The devs having never implied that pack ponies would not always work automatically in all future content, is not a position that supports an idea that people should be able to turn their alt lists into a revolving door pony material factories from day #1 of PoP. I continue to believe the furore over pack ponies, and the mere whimper about guild hall harvesters, speaks volumes.

MMOs are a giant time gate. Have always been, always will be. Some people are just upset because they cant log in, collect materials from pony, log out, and repeat it over, and over, and over again. I applaud the Devs for taking steps to not incentivize that type of "game play" in the start of PoP. People complaining about being forced to "play the game" is rather amusing, logging in and out of revolving door alt lists to collect materials from ponies is not playing the game.

You make some very good points, stick to them.

However I wouldn't really waste much time trying to talk reason to those who have falsely come to blatantly erroneous conclusions based on their own deep personal bias.

That the Team claims they'll be doing the necessary upgrades too late for them to be of any real value is a shame.

From what I've read, and heard in game chat and elsewhere, many players - including a LOT of primarily crafters - are taking a page from the Team's book and not buying the expansion until 'some point later in the cycle' to see if their content will be added, and their concerns addressed.

Crafting has always had a timeline for crafters to have something to do and to level. NO TIMELINE YET AND NO ETA ON IT YET. The only thing crafters have to do is log in and try to level via writs and by the time they are done and reach 110, most people will not have any need except food/drink from crafters. The pack ponies supplement for the time they can't be out there to help harvest so they can grind writs. The new expansion has one overland that will be harvested from.. THATS IT. Its not hard to get out there and do it. Most people will have the 1st faction line and probably the 2nd on the first day and be level 110 due to the amount of xp they put into quests. Crafters aren't going to be faction grinding for adventure level. Most will wait until they put in the time line to even purchase the xpac. People aren't complaining they are forced to play the game. They are complaining because doing the long questline, probably before most harvests were getting 13 a pop to get the harvesting pony and now its useless until "they decide" its time to put it in. Logging in and out on 2 hour increments to check your ponies and build up supplies to craft as you please isn't not playing the game. Its playing the game with what supposed to be there for the $15 dollars they are paying. They pay to play it their way. IT doesn't matter that you think that isn't the way to play. You don't pay for their accounts. Most people with ponies still go out and collect. This supplements them for while they are TSing and can't go out and collect. When we adventure we can do both, but when you tradeskill...wait for it.... you can't do both at the same time, unless you have the ponies and guild harvesters, which can only do it on a 2 hour timer. Imagine that. This MMO has never been a time gate until just last xpac.

It would have been nice if the TS timeline was ready for the launch of PoP. Unfortunately, a consequence of EQ2's current team size. I am not worried about leveling my crafters without a TS timeline. When it gets added, I am sure it will be worth doing on all of them. Of course there is not an ETA on the TS line being added, they would have no reasonable basis to provide an ETA at this time. As for what items are in demand short term vs long term for crafters, that is an entirely separate discussion.

It would seem you have a much greater focus on the function of ponies, than the absence of a TS quest line. Do the ponies matter more to you than the absence of the TS quest line? Would like to hear your thoughts on such, either which way.

As for the whole "play it their way" mentality, it belongs in the same basket as the "Free To Play, Your Way" slogan. The Devs have always decided what they add or remove from the game, what features they enable or disable, and what they do or do not include in each expansion. When it comes to EQ2, the only thing that is constant is change.

If anything, the complaints some people are making about ponies demonstrates the Devs made the right call. I believe that not enabling ponies for PoP mats at the start of PoP, will help to give more power to the little guys, rather than pandering to those with 12+ ponies on revolving door character lists.

And don't forget that we have to use more mats then ever before in the recipies soemthing hta tis based on having those ponies, goblins and guild harvesters. I figuer htere decision to not add the new tier is because htey did not have hte quwestlin and they thought wrongfully that we would not harvest to get the rares we acutaloly need to make the mastered crafter for others.

If I recall Gnijna asked what we did before the ponies harvesters and goblins were put it. We had 100 to 200% less mats to needed in the recipes and more zones that had the tiers we needed to harvest in, It was manageable then Now it isn't with only having 1 zone.. Not with them keeping the mats needed for the recipes at the number they have now a number that is based on having those ponies, goblins and guild harvesters. they did not think this through clearly enough when they tried to fix the problem they think they created by not having the trade-skill quest-line finished. crafters would have still gone out to harvest since the the guild harvesters do not bring back any rares and the ponies and goblins only brought a few we still would have needed more not to mention the food stuff and special rares that the ponies and goblins do not bring back. so the thinking that they needed to handicap the crafters to make them see the zone was wrong since we would still have gone out to see the zone and harvest.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED A DEDICATED TRADE-SKILL DEV WHO KNOWS CRAFTING AND THE CRAFTING COMMUNITY. Domino knew us she would never tried this kind of a fix if the trade-skill quest line was that bad. she would have known it was unnecessary.

No, the little guy is probably going to pack it in and quit. There's no way they will be able to gather enough resources to try and level, not when they have to compete with not only all of the other crafters, but adventurers who will be out to make a killing in the broker by snagging nodes while they are adventuring. The resource shortage is going to be tremendous. It's the beginning of KA and shadeweave buds all over again, except now we have folks who have traded in their goblins for the really short gathering time.

And yes, we'd rather have the TS tradeskill line instead of the ponies, because then we could advance our tradeskill levels in a reasonable amount of time. However, without the timeline, the only way for a crafter to level is writs, and without the ponies and goblins and harvesters, they are really behind the 8-ball, spending half (or more) of their game time harvesting before they make a single point of XP for the day. Without the timeline for leveling, the resource gatherers are needed for crafters to advance at a reasonable pace, one that would still be a lot slower than the adventurer pace.

Yep, those little guys will be jumping for joy as they find they can't get any harvestables because they're all locked down in the one overland zone. Good times a-comin' folks! Good times...

Exactly

I don't think the poster you are replying to has a true understanding of the crafting community if he thinks we won't go out and harvest for the mats the ponies, goblins don't bring in, not to mention the food and special rares that they have never brought home, even if the Devs wake up and change their minds about handicapping us so much with what is clearly an unnecessary fix to a non existent problem. Crafters will go out and harvest and see the zone even with the ponies, goblins and guild harvesters. I had planned when I heard about the amount of mats needed for each combine to send my ponies out and harvest for the 2 hours before they return, while getting started on the adventure quests as well(now I have to decide whether to spend all my time harvesting the first week so I can get one crafting level or Just work on my adventuring and forgo the fun of crafting until you get that quest-line in) this is something the Devs do not understand about crafters and adventurers who are also crafters we will harvest at the beginning to suppliment what little ponies, goblins and guild harvesters bring in. heck if it is just ponies and guild harvesters I'd be ok with that as well.

There seems to be some... feeling.. that common harvests should be 'rare enough' that adventurers will bother to harvest. I guess somebody things crafters are either rolling in plat or ripping adventurers off somehow.... Neither of those make sense to me.. but I can't imagine why else there is some 'push' to 'encourage' crafters to buy mats from people who don't craft.

He doesn't. The utter fallacy of his arguments has been pointed out to him over and over, both here and elsewhere. For some reason he has a deep seated bias and resentment for folks who have earned more ponies than he has.

He expresses his complete lack of understanding again and again when he insists that there are hordes of crafters out there somehow 'ruining crafting' by collecting from their 'revolving door' ponies - an assertion for which there is 100% ZERO EVIDENCE. And if there were such 'revolving door harvesters' it would be the extreme minority and certainly not something a team that was in touch with their communities would punish an entire community for.

The little guy is not someone who can farm materials with a stable of 12+ ponies. It appears to mostly be people with 12+ ponies, or people who quit playing well before the pony situation was announced, that are complaining about this change. The decision made by the Devs makes it so the little guy is not trying to compete with people who have a stable of 12+ ponies on a revolving door rotation, so there is no better time for the new/little guy to get in on the act. Sounds like an expansion doing what it is supposed to do.

I see nothing wrong with people that want to craft a lot, benefiting from harvesting a lot. Being a crafter should mean more than planting ones feet at the TS amenities in a guild hall. My view is that crafting and harvesting are two sides of the same coin. I expect that the Devs will monitor the rate of materials gained from harvesting at the start of PoP, and adjust if needed. No argument put forth so far makes me believe ponies are the answer, but they will still arrive in due time.

First. What gives you the idea that 'most' people who are presenting arguments in favor of upgrading the ponies and guild harvesters are people with a large herd of ponies.
Second. Your comment about having no harvests from ponies and guild harvesters makes it 'a good time for the 'little guy' to get into crafting suggests that you see crafting as a competitive activity. While I'm sure there are some people, aside from you, who feel that way, the majority of people who primarily craft (and many of us who craft and adventure) do not craft to compete with others nor to make fat sacks of plat selling crafted mats... Most people craft to make things for themselves and their friends and guildies.

the amount of harvests the ponies bring in is a drop in the ocean of the amounts needed to level and actually craft stuff, even aside from harvesting just for commons are rares and ultra rares, if you think crafters are just going to lean on their pack ponies and only craft with common mats then you've NEVER actually semi seriously crafted at all.

you seem to think crafters are lazy because they get a trickle of resources from a pony which took a good chunk of time to do PER TOON. in addition to spending hours harvesting both commons and rares to ether help themselves and friends or to make available for sale items made by said rares.

so in other words because people complain about a change, it's a justified change? what kinda of dumb logic is that? any change in any game will never please everybody, ergo by your logic every change in any game is 'justified' regardless of how bad it is to the players involved.

who makes food and drink? crafters, who makes adornments? oh crafters, who makes spell scrolls going all the way to ancient in some cases? crafters, who harvests those ULTRA rares to make GM spells? crafters.

so no, crafters are not lazy for using what is effectively their tradeskill epic to provide a small amount of resources from time to time, in the entire time it takes one pony to get stuff crafters like myself can and do harvest many more times then the pony does.

you seem the sort that picks a specific aspect of a game and does not care one way or the other how others gameplay is affected by your own actions and by others.


if there were no crafters, guess what everybody would ether have to slowly research their spells, hope some adept-masters dropped AFTER running zones ton of times or pay cash for direct upgrades, nobody would have food and drink, newbies would have no way to easily acquire decent handcrafted armor.

now with that in mind you should realize crafters contribute to adventurer's gameplay and just because you don't craft doesn't mean what the developers change in crafting will not effect you.

adventuers, crafters, decorators, soloers, heroic players, raiders

we ALL play the game, we ALL want to have fun, we ALL want decent treatment from others.

being a crafter does not make anyone lesser then any other player, like it or not crafters are productive players that provide goods and services to adventurers and put lots of time and effort into it.

please take your harvesting and crafting ignorance elsewhere.

I have seen a number of them admit it in their posts on threads regarding this topic.

Nothing will prevent people from continuing to craft for themselves, friends and guildies. We just wont have a massive discrepancy between the capacity of output between those who have stables of 12+ ponies, and the little guy (for the start of PoP, at least). As someone who crafts and adventures, I continue to see that as a good thing.

That's cute. Do you still believe in Santa Claus too?

A few have, yes, but you're suggesting that MOST people who think the change is a bad idea have herds.

What 'discrepancy' are you talking about?

And, no, they won't be able to craft things for themselves and friends.. at least not in a timely fashion. Handcrafted gear is only barely better then the freebie gear and it isn't as good as the faction quested gear. By the time most people are leveled up enough to make handcrafted gear, there will be no need to.. since their friends and guildies who don't craft will already have better.

so you are basically saying that one player who spend YEARS on building alts, doing long faction grinds, getting their tradeskill levels up, get tradeskill and specialized harvest gear, shouldn't reap the sweat of their brow? because johnny newbie doesn't have the capacity and that capacity isn't handed to him for crating one tradeskiller?

i mean it's like so unfair that he has to WORK at it, to build that CAPACITY, like oh i dunno? every manufacturing company in existence?

If it is truly a drop in the ocean, then people complaining about a drop in the ocean is an entirely pointless exercise.

As for the rest of your post, you don't need to tell me that crafters make stuff. I already know, I have a bunch of them, and started crafting back in 2004. I may be misreading, but the manner you replied seems very emotional, I can only encourage you to take a slow, deep breath, and enjoy crafting in PoP. I know I will.