I have a dagger that procs sympathetic alleviating burst VIII and an aug that procs sympathetic alleviating burst IV Would I get twice as many procs using both or would only the sword ever proc since its stronger? Its hard to test because they both give the same proc message.
I am not a proc expert by any means, but they can/will proc simultaneously. Not sure about chances, or anything like that. I do know that you can only get x number of procs per minute.
My understanding (and this could be way off) is that there is a certain order in which the game checks for procs, and if the check succeeds, it does not continue to check for other procs. You therefore experience diminishing returns on procs, as the procs far down on the check will not fire very often. Both are able to proc, but the second proc will not proc as often as the first.
If I remember correct when this was tested in Underfoot when those first came around, it goes something like this. 1) Yes, there is an order of what will be checked first. 2) Your total chance of each individual item proc'ing therefore is affected by the order of what gets checked first. 3) Your total # of procs will increase overall. This can mean you will get more mana overall from the multiple procs than you would have gotten if you only had one aug. Those of us with 2 (helping hand + a weapon with the proc) do see it proc quite often.
Approximate overall proc rates are as follows: 1 proc: 46% 2: 71% 3: 84% 4: 92% 5: 95% 6: 98% 7: 99% Which fits the pattern: P(A∪B)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B) P(A∪B∪C)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B) + P(C) - P(A∩B∩C) P(A∪B∪C∪D)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B) + P(C) - P(A∩B∩C) + P(D) - P(A∩B∩C∩D) etc. Aside from a few things like the shawl, which I won't get into, the majority of weapons/augments act the same. This means if you use two typical procs the rate on each individual one will be about 35% (71% divided by 2.) There is essentially no specific order when it comes to checking these procs, so you'll see each one diminished equally as you add more. This has a lot of implications if you dig into it further.
Basically you will get increased performance up to like 4ish procs.....after that having more will decrease the firing of your best procs while only marginally improving your overall proc rate. Personally I have a proc on my 2h, 1 aug proc in it, a belt with a proc, and the shawl aug which has a proc. You definitely will do better with 2 or 3 procs than one. The sweet spot is opinion dependant but I like 4.
Bam! Kathy brings the math hehehe. I would've held off posting if I thought someone was coming with the percentages that quickly lol.
How do these gear procs interact with Wildspark, MR, and Hedgewizard? Are they independent or factor into one another?
Each spell is allowed one proc from items per cast: Weapon procs, Augment procs, Misc other items with procs, etc. One proc from buffs: DD Potion, Druid Aura, Enchanter Aura, Pyromancy, etc. One proc from passive AA's: Arcane Fusion, etc. Each group acts independent of one another. As far as I know each group within itself follows the same relative pattern of P(A∪B)=P(A) + P(B) - P(A∩B), but the percentages are not necessarily the same. When spells proc spells, each spell is treated separate. I can twincast Ethereal Fuse for example, have it proc the bonus spell, and each of those four base spells can potentially proc one item from each of the above categories as well.
Most of what has been said is incorrect. There is no order for spell procs. Spell procs work thusly: First you need to calculate the chance for each to proc using the following formula: Base * Base1 / 10 * Normalizer * Item Proc Mod Base = .06 always. Hardcoded, don't ask why. Base1 = Base1 value of the PROC. Normalizer = Value based on the cast time of the SPELL you cast, not the proc itself. a) Cast Time < 2.5 then Normalizer = 0.25 b) Cast Time > 2.5 and < 7 then Normalizer = 0.167 * (Cast Time - 1) c) Cast Time > 7 then Normalizer = Cast Time / 7 Item Proc Mod = Items can have an invisible mod that affects proc rates. The only way to see it is to look on Lucy's raw item data. Example: Proc 1 - Sympathetic Alleviating Burst VIII has a base1 of 100. Proc 2 - Brell's Divination (Shawl Aug) has a base1 of 80. You cast Ethereal Skyblaze which has a casting time of 3.75 seconds. Assuming no item proc rate mods. Proc 1: .06 * 100 / 10 * (3.75 - 1) * .167 = 0.27555% chance to proc. Proc 2: .06 * 80 / 10 * (3.75 - 1) * .167 = 0.22044% chance to proc. Now that you know the chance for each proc to fire, you do this: 1) All proc rates are added together into a Total Proc Rate. (27% + 22% = 49%). 2) A die is rolled to see if a proc will occur. (1-49 = will proc, 50-100 = will not proc). 3) If the die roll results in a proc a second, weighted, die is rolled against the Total Proc Rate to see which of the procs actually fires. (1-27 = proc1 fires, 28-49 = proc2 fires). I was never able to get a clear answer as to whether or not Heroics affect the proc rate, but it was assumed they did not and the above is fully correct. It's been about 2 years, but iirc I was never able to ever get my tests to align exactly with the above formula, (procs are a really crappy part of EQ apparently), so it is possible there is some other factor that is unknown to everyone that is affecting it.
Beimith, thanks for a terrific writeup, but also a couple questions. First, Im guessing spell cast time would be the base spell casttime. Is that correct? Second, Where on lucy do I find item proc mod? As example, I have rod of the cuisinier which has a damage proc and a mana heal proc. On lucy detail tab it says proc rate 200%. Maybe thats all I need for this item, but I need to find where in raw data that shows, because not all items have that info showing in the detail page. I see on raw data tab, fields that say procrate 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and procrate mod, and none of those say 200. How would I read it? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Kathlynn thanks to you as well. I see what you are saying and its helpful.
Base cast time yes. If I remember correctly, the procmod is added to the normal mod. Aka, if lucy says an item has a 200% mod, it will show in the raw data as 100, not 200.
Something doesnt seem right though. The other proc on my dagger (rod of the cuisinier) is force of corruption X, and lucy says base1 = -945. That seems like the value for how much damage it does instead of being a component of the proc odds formula.
Beimeith, I noticed you're not using the Underfoot range symph. Does gaining a 4th Symph proc via Fine Silk Sash replace the need for using the Underfoot symph in range due to decreasing the likelyhood of the modern symphs firing? Therefore 4 symphs is the magic number no matter where they are located? Thank you!
