Wizard Love

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mazame, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. Windance Augur

    IMHO - Melee and swarm pets also need to be scaled back as well. The push to make everything shorter casting, faster action, twitch style casting/melee and giving folks 2-3s to respond to emotes are all contributing to the server load.

    While this is more about server lag, it would be interesting to load up a 'beta' server with 200-300 people all caped at level 10 and perform benchmarks, then boost them up to 115 with all the twitch stuff do the same benchmarks.
    GoneFission, MasterMagnus and kizant like this.
  2. Erany New Member

    Mages (along with wizards) also need some help in the raid DPS department as they also lag behind the majority of the melee dps classes and necros. Fairly sure a group geared zerker or necro would out dps a well played raid geared mage/wiz on many raid events.
  3. Warpeace Augur

    Guess that will depend on the definition of well played, who burned when and refresh timers on burn discs. Some events just have little or no love for some classes. But, I don't think I'm seeing the sky is falling theory being spun here.
  4. Ilsidri New Member

    Maybe wizards can have more spell slots, and I would love the ability to port a group (and TL?) to my 2nd and 3rd bind points. Otherwise I agree to many, many points made above - we need a big boost in base dps and *waves hand* everything else. I love my wizard. I'll never main anything else. But *rages in wizard* c'mon people!
  5. Windance Augur

    I don't think mages are hurting that bad. If you use the theory that they are one of the few classes that can molo much of the group game ...
  6. Erany New Member

    Mages are excellent in the group game and their ability to molo, was referring specifically to raiding.
    They suffer from some of the same issues as wizards when it comes to DPS in raids. I would be surprised if any guild has a mage (or wizard) parsing in the top 10 on a regular basis on any CoV event. The current raid lag may have something to do with this, I don’t play mage or wiz but hear the complaints on lag making it worse.
    As someone said in an earlier post “ The reality is caster dps can’t keep up with melee dps (except necros).”
  7. Tolzol Augur

    I suggest your mages go figure out what they are doing wrong or get them proper adps. The only thing currently keeping them from being noticeably ahead of other classes (outside of necros obviously) currently is the lag. With the lag they are right on par with zerkers or slightly behind (depending on the severity of the lag) on any event that is not just a straight up burn. Wizards have a right to complain about dps. And maybe even monks a lil. No other class should be complaining about dps when it comes to raid game.
    Redsumm, Warpeace, Szilent and 2 others like this.
  8. Gnomereaper Augur

    I agree, slowing down the game some is a good start. While I understand that people from guilds such as Realm of Insanity and such enjoy this game play style, and their opinion and choice in play style is valid as anyone, we also need to keep in mind that we have a casual audience as well.

    While some classes should have different styles of play, there could also be different spell rotations for different modes of play. Some requiring more twitch action and others not so much.
  9. Marton Augur

    I would not say Mages suffer in dps department. Have your mages look over posts Sancus made on forums to improve their play.
    Redsumm likes this.
  10. Darkerknight Journeyman

    Yeah, mages are not hurting for DPS. Mine constantly bumps my Wizard out of the top DPS spot in my group. Given the additional utility Mages have, Wizards should be like 10% ahead of them on DPS. Heck, even 5% would be fine.
    I_Love_My_Bandwidth and kizant like this.
  11. Mazame Augur

    I think we all can agree that wizards could use the bump in DPS. So now what would be the best way to go about upping their DPS.

    We have BDPS and SDPS. I for one would like to see the Burn DPS improved greatly .. Have Wizards get a revamp to Mana burn and update "Ice comet" Spells. These spells back in the day would drop a large chuck of HP of the target if not out right kill it. I think having a few spells where if they wants they could just blow something up would be very nice. the trade of would be to have the Large mana cost to off set it so they can pick Mass damage or SDPS.

    The other option would be to put a Huge hate mod or lock. So that when a Wizard cast X spell he will get aggro. So he could then time his spell so that when he uses it it will kill the mob or will turn and eat him.

    3rd option would be to give them a flat 10-20% boost to there SDPS that would enable them to compete in the top ten but with less rick. I think they should be higher on the parse but I would like to see it more skill based with higher risk. So if a wizard is played correctly they will be in the top 5 but if not they will die often. Just my thoughts.

    What would be some other ideas?
    GoneFission likes this.
  12. Travestii Elder

    Since we're dreaming here, one mechanism for increasing wizard dps is via making class specific visible armor drops meaningful by tweaking each piece with large spell damage increases. This would address two of the problems with our class, one being subpar dps and the other being a lack of incremental dps increases with gear. I'm sure other modifiers could be used on visible wizard gear in lieu of spell damage that might more closely address the specific class needs that Beimeith and Kizant have identified.
  13. Azamar New Member

    Rarely I see this type of posts and support to a particular class from players that actually play and do so on other classes, thank you Mazame for starting this and all others who contribute to it. I wont add to the already insightful and detailed recommendation given by the wizard community in this and other threads, also helpful insights by many other players from different classes. Id rather want to give some context and thoughts of the class which I'm part of, in no particular order:
    • Group and raid structure combined with the "potential" of the class to be able to dps and that fine equilibrium of twitching the raid to maximize everything, one extreme of this spectrum is to group up 2 enchanters, 2 druids and 1 bard with a wizard to make it shine but this would never be the case in a current gameplay or game reality, this example purpose is to bring forward the concept that the wizard has "potential" to dps sustained under ridiculous circumstances that are far from the real thing.
    • The previous point allows me to extend more on raid structure, in very general terms encounters are build for 9 groups, which lets say that 3 are tank, 4 melee and 2 caster, could vary in 3 melee and 3 caster in some cases but not the norm (not going to stop and debate why this happens). Which then leads to the raid set up and what groups get what adps classes and the specific case of the bard, they bring much enhancements to every class but give greater advantage to group up bards with melee rather than casters (not going into detail why this happens), so would require 3-4 just for melee, so in order of priorities, for all the casters to receive a bard you would need 6-7 bards (if the case of 2-2.5 group of tanks) on any raiding night, which is not the reality of most raid forces, go to the website roster/magelo site/recruiting vacancy need's within the top 15 guilds and see how many fulfill this quota, what I find to be common is somewhere around 3, beyond top 10-15 guilds the commonality is having 1-2 and the gap just increases. This point is valid for all casters and their "potential" to reach peak dps said in the previous argument, wont go into stacking issues with wizards & bards, but I will definitely say that they are tremendous help sustaining our dps just by 1 song, 1 aura, epic and FE, not to mention advantages for those wizard who choose to melee. Keep in mind that while bards are played as box by many many people, it's not the case of a raiding main and its something that I feel is important to point out, because it's an issue that goes farther from the reach of recruiting capabilities. This point also reinforces what Beimeith was referring to in an earlier post about adps support not being the same in all raid forces.
    • There are few encounters where Enchanters need to be distributed in other groups that are not a caster groups, because of healing or a certain encounter mechanic that require them elsewhere, specially true if there are a considerable number of mechanics and the raid needs to be divided in various spots, as of lately this encounters are not common (lets see how CoV finishes), but my main point out in this type of encounters just widens the gap because we are very dependent on other classes so our none burn dps wont fall so much behind, or even be noticeable as a dps class.
    • Trade skills is something that I was never interested in, I've been around since Kunark so that close to 20 years? Initially when zek earring came out I instantly told my self "Whatever, it's one piece you wont have that will make no impact" but then because 2 augs came inside the process, that could possibly enhance my dps it became a necessity, for it to become such speaks volume about the general feeling within the wizard community to not fall farther behind, which we end up falling to after the last nerf, that while necessary, it also gave a considerable blow to an already low morale.
    • In my opinion, it's a mistake to refer to the traditional view of caster dps role: necromancer = long fight, magician = mid fight and wizard = quick fight. This game has changed SO much since the beginning, clinging to this notion cripples the development of the classes into impossible standards and giving no way out of some of the difficulties wizard's or other classes may face. I've never seen the discussion where a Rogue has to be a length of time dps as a class definition, since we never fall into this absurdity of boundaries, rogue's have abilities that make a difference around the clock if the encounter require it, which is also the case for other melee. EQ has not only changed in DPS, but also in tanking (from a 5-8 warrior rotation era to what we have now) and healing abilities (6-9 cleric CH rotation with low pause as the only way of keeping a MT alive), but make no mistake: tanks fulfill tank role now days, healers also heal now days, wizard's are not fulfilling top 5 dps roles overall now days and the gap with top 1-3 is considerable and at this rate, alarming.
    • For the group play it's very straightforward, it's an environment where our utilities are useful or handy (commonly port and CC), other than that it's a class that would rather be filled by any other than a cleric (and kinda like having rezz on demand more than port for many situations) and I'm only being slightly exaggerated. Our sustained is very far off from a group that grinds for exp, collectibles, TS drops and many burn situation's missions that current game content gravitates around (remember we are good burn dps in group context where we have some other classes with us and for over a minute every 15-20 minutes). The common situation has become to the point where wizard have to depend on proccing twincast from claw + sub sequential spell's to actually crit + mob being alive the entire TC duration (claw better proc on the first 2 casts) in order to not fall behind a knight/tank class sustained.
    Mongol311 likes this.
  14. SonOfABiscuit Augur

    dear dreamweaver,

    Can you please let us know that this is a recognized concern? Or, alternatively, that it's not on the Devs' radar? I'm very much hoping that this issue is addressed at some point in the near future. It's embarrassing for wizards nowadays.

    Thanks for any response!
    Mongol311 and Endorek like this.
  15. SonOfABiscuit Augur

    Endorek likes this.
  16. Mongol311 Worst Wiz in EQ

  17. Metanis Bad Company

    They should just merge clerics and wizards. It's like they're two sides of the same coin. Cast on a PC and it's a heal with dmg proc... cast on an npc and it's a nuke with a heal proc. Bingo, now we have code room to create a new pet class.
    Vumad likes this.
  18. Mongol311 Worst Wiz in EQ

    actually lol'd
  19. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Errr WTF are you talking about, wizzys have no nuke spells that heals players, sure you haven't got them mixed up with druds? I'd rather quit the wizzy class that become a healer.

    But like many others in this thread it would be nice to know what the devs have in mind for improving the wizzy class and at least bringing them back up to the DPS they were pre proc nerf.
    Endorek likes this.
  20. SonOfABiscuit Augur

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